1 Dollar Ultralight Camping Survival Stove

[Ashley Cawley]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z85XyP9g_jY
By http://www.youtube.com/user/outbackgear


How I made a reliable ultralight alcohol stove with a $1.00 aluminum water bottle purchased from the Dollar Store. I have used this stove many times in the field and it works excellent for boiling water.

[chris grace]

Good bit of kit and looks a lot stronger than a coke can stove.It looks like a fat and short version of the whitebox stove,I'll give this a go.

[Ashley Cawley]

Good bit of kit and looks a lot stronger than a coke can stove.It looks like a fat and short version of the whitebox stove,I'll give this a go.
Exactly what I thought :)

[Martin]

That looks uncannily like the 'Whitebox Stove' Ash. Nice find. :)

Martin

Edit: Great minds think alike. ;)

[Roadkillphil]

Another pending project for me to make :D

[Sleepy]

As a rule, I don't bother with stoves apart from camping trips in the tent to "proper" camp sites, but I must admit, that's pretty cool - May be a trip to poundland on the way!

Only one question really; How do you put it out? or is it a waste fuel and let it burn out jobby?

[paul standley]

As a rule, I don't bother with stoves apart from camping trips in the tent to "proper" camp sites, but I must admit, that's pretty cool - May be a trip to poundland on the way!

Only one question really; How do you put it out? or is it a waste fuel and let it burn out jobby?

Generally speaking, you get used to judging how much fuel is req'd for a mug or a pint etc of water (differs by ambient temperature & altitude) and you only put that amount in the stove. For a cup of water, it's probably around 30 or 40 mililitres so wastage is minimal to zero.

Side burners like this generally favour a wider pot due to flame spread so may not be so efficient with a mug/cup but great for pots, small camp kettles etc.

[kINGPIN]

Great little stove.

[luresalive]

Thats a cracker, will have to give that a shot.

[Ashley Cawley]

Thats a cracker, will have to give that a shot.

Glad you've been inspired :) ... if you give it a crack don't forget to share some pics of video with us here! :)

[Martin]

This all looks great but it doesn't demonstrate how the two sections are sealed when the top goes into the bottom section. Without a good tight seal, the alcohol vapour will leak through this join and make the stove inefficient.

Any ideas?

Martin

[luresalive]

I was thinking too, with the holes around the middle of that stove it wouldn't hold very much fuel so long cooking times are out..

[Martin]

I don't think that would be too much of a problem as you could just make the stove a little taller or drill the holes a little higher if you anticipate that you will need a longer cooking time.

Martin

[Sleepy]

I'd imagine it's a very tight fit (considering its part of the same bottle) and the pot sits on the top which'll stop some too.

[bigzee]

I have made a few of these, except I've used aluminium cosmetic cans (deodorant, shower gel, hair mousse etc) and have never spent the princely sum of one dollar or pound on any of them!

They are an absolute piece of pi....err...a dream to make relative to some other designs, as once the plastic squirty gubbins has been removed, you cut off the top, the bottom (same depth) and add a few strategically placed holes round the circumferance. The inverted top is "whacked" into the bottom with a piece of wood in between to spread the force, and if there is sufficient depth, and the container has a suitable profile, this will produce a nice tight friction fit.

A bit of sanding/roughing inside the base and outside the "top" should prevent later slippage. The further addition of a strip of loft insulation between the two will wick the fuel through to the "jet chamber" which is where we want it in this kind of design.

Hmmm?...the mother in law donated a nice mousse container to me the other day... I might go and make another tonight and take some pics for y'all

[Martin]

Thanks Zee. That confirms the Whitebox Stove theory then. :)

Martin

[bigzee]

As promised earlier - pics for the no dollar one dollar stove (at least the ones that would upload...grrr!).

Hope this illustrated adequately. The jet holes were made with a thumb tack and what was syphon tube hole edge was dented slightly with flat head screwdriver to allow fuel to seep into pressure chamber from central reservoir.

[Martin]

That's seriously good work mate. Thanks for sharing and I can see how the top sits really tight inside the body of the can with the assistance of the wood and hammer. :)

Martin

[Alba Albion]

Bril stove, can't wait to have ago.

[paul standley]

Nice work Bigzee, I see you have the same precision hammer & block tool system that I've got :-)

So, at what point with mousse cans, does the height of stove (and therefore the fuel capacity) become outweighed by the inability of the stove to keep itself hot enough to maintain pressure and vaporisation and thus flame jets ?.

Or put another way, what's the biggest fuel capacity (burn time) that you could produce using this stove design, any idea ?

Paul.

[Roadkillphil]

Thanks Bigzee for the pics, gonna have a bash at making one next week :D

[Ashley Cawley]

I think you've inspired a few Bigzee
T^

[bigzee]

Nice work Bigzee, I see you have the same precision hammer & block tool system that I've got :-)

So, at what point with mousse cans, does the height of stove (and therefore the fuel capacity) become outweighed by the inability of the stove to keep itself hot enough to maintain pressure and vaporisation and thus flame jets ?.

Or put another way, what's the biggest fuel capacity (burn time) that you could produce using this stove design, any idea ?

Paul.
Oh dear...I knew "the master stovemaker" himself would come back with some scientechnicalographic fabricatorilogical conundrum (yes I can speak American).

Err..I assume you're referring to the high heat conductivity of the aluminium, and the cooling effect (and therefore pressure drop) caused by placing a pot in direct contact with it. This arrangement although seemingly simple has always troubled me too. On the one hand the heat sink effect of the pot cools, and could be seen as inefficient. On the other, without this, the jets pressurize to such a degree that they shoot out a completely impractical distance from the stove (and pots). This is why my favoured designs form a centrally converging jet arrangement, which directs vertically on a small pot or in the case of larger pot - vertically and rolling up around the edge. This does not waste heat up past the sides of a pot.

As for the mousse can stove burn time, it's not very long, mostly because the volume between the concave innner wall and the outer is not great. The one dollar drinks bottle design as originally posted, would be better because it began with a bigger container with greater diameter. It would be better still if the concentric pressure chamber were of a more volume-efficient profile. Much like yourself (I suspect) I am on the quest for the holy grail of stove design ie: simple,efficient,compact,lightweight,flexible, and free. We're never quite satisfied though are we?

I have some stove pics. on my profile if you want to compare jet effects.

[paul standley]

As you say bigzee - Heat sink effect is one of life's universal imponderables...!

I had come off DIY alchohol stoves a while back having got to the point where I couldn't get hold of any U.S. style rigid aluminium beer bottles with the curving neck and I'd done other can stove types to death - but now I can see a whole new range of possibilities opening up with the £1 Poundland 0.5 litre aluminum bottles so maybe I'll start again with renewed energy.

[Kieran]

I have a old bottle like this where the plastic lid snapped, and it is in the cupboard doing absolutly nothing...
IDEAL!!!
Thanks Ash, and whoever made this video :D :D


Kieran

[Kieran]

Or even my sister's empty can of mouse! Thanks Bigzee :)

[Martin]

Your sister keeps a mouse in an empty can? Most people use a cage. ;)

Martin

[Ben Casey]

your sister keeps a mouse in an empty can? Most people use a cage. ;)

martin

lol

[Kieran]

lol

hehe

[bigzee]

Your sister keeps a mouse in an empty can? Most people use a cage. ;)

Martin
A can of mouse - it's probably some kind of puree / reformed mouse. A kind of skintcrafter pate maybe?

[Roadkillphil]

Just been in St Ozzel asda and found an aluminium bottle for 83p, it even came with a mini karabiner! So I bought the last 2 and again will have to put the coracle on hold to make this stove! :ashamed:

[Adam Savage]

Just been in St Ozzel asda and found an aluminium bottle for 83p, it even came with a mini karabiner! So I bought the last 2 and again will have to put the coracle on hold to make this stove! :ashamed:

Prolonging the plunge? The local poundland sells these bottles with crabs, think I'll buy 5 for the crabs to go on the ridge line, to replace the ones I have on there, use some of the bottles as...well, bottles, and use one or two for this and another project it has given me an idea for. Top finding skills Ash. :)

[Martin]

Grrrr!!! You bought up all the stock. :D

Tried my own ally stove at work today. Got an empty aluminium deodorant can and cut it open. Trouble was, it had a sort of waisted bit about three quarters of the way up which spoiled the whole thing. Not only that, but I didn't cut it very even so will have to have another try.

Will also keep my eyes open for the drinks bottle. We have a hydraulic press at work which worked well on the deodorant can until I went just that bit too far. ;)

Martin

[bigzee]

Grrrr!!! You bought up all the stock. :D

Tried my own ally stove at work today. Got an empty aluminium deodorant can and cut it open. Trouble was, it had a sort of waisted bit about three quarters of the way up which spoiled the whole thing. Not only that, but I didn't cut it very even so will have to have another try.


Will also keep my eyes open for the drinks bottle. We have a hydraulic press at work which worked well on the deodorant can until I went just that bit too far. ;)

Martin

A HYDRAULIC PRESS???!!!!....what's wrong with a lump of wood in one hand and twatometer (Manchester screwdriver) in the other? You'll get no sense of hand -made satisfaction with a Donald Duck-ing hydraulic press Martin!

Gently -gently -catchee - monkey.

[Roadkillphil]

Couldn't help meself :ashamed:

Bashed it out in about 45min :D

'ere tiz
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5229/5685112148_cded0dbcf7.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/7904270@N07/5685112148/)
83p stove :D (http://www.flickr.com/photos/7904270@N07/5685112148/) by roadkillphil (http://www.flickr.com/people/7904270@N07/), on Flickr

It boiled a cup o water in my cru cup in approximately four hundred and twentythree point two six seconds!! ;) Hahaha, not sure how long it took, fast enough, and it boiled my water, thats all that matters to me for 83p.

Now, back to ma Bo - it :D

[Martin]

A HYDRAULIC PRESS???!!!!....what's wrong with a lump of wood in one hand and twatometer (Manchester screwdriver) in the other? You'll get no sense of hand -made satisfaction with a Donald Duck-ing hydraulic press Martin!

Gently -gently -catchee - monkey.

Precision dear boy, precision. ;)

Martin

[Adam Savage]

Nice one Phil. It's always better when someone "real" gets these things to work.

[paul standley]

How much meths does it hold Phil ? or how long does it burn ?

[Roadkillphil]

How much meths does it hold Phil ? or how long does it burn ?
I'd have to conduct further experiments to get an accurate answer on that Paul, but for a rough estimate now, the stove has a diameter of 70mm, I put meths in to a depth of 7 mm, give or take. This got my cru cup boiling in 5-7 mins and boiled for a further minute or two b4 going out.
The main issue for me is that it works better than my popcan with my crucup... with the popcan, no matter how hot it got, if I placed the cup direct onto it, it would snuff it out. So I had to use a popcan/hobo combo. Now all i need is crucup, 83p stove and a windbreak. Oh, and its more robust too. :D

All the best

Phil

[bigzee]

I made one of these a couple of nights ago having found the two relevant parts of a drinks bottle that my daughter lost due to under-use a while back. However not being a great fan of the "exterior jet" I put the holes on the top of the inner to form a central converging jet arrangement. After a test run I concluded that it was a larger than necessary and slower to warm-up version of my usual lynx can burner. So for future reference - keep the jets on the outside lads and lasses and use it for bigger pots/cups as per the video and Phil's photo.

[paul standley]

I'd have to conduct further experiments to get an accurate answer on that Paul, but for a rough estimate now, the stove has a diameter of 70mm, I put meths in to a depth of 7 mm, give or take. This got my cru cup boiling in 5-7 mins and boiled for a further minute or two b4 going out.
The main issue for me is that it works better than my popcan with my crucup... with the popcan, no matter how hot it got, if I placed the cup direct onto it, it would snuff it out. So I had to use a popcan/hobo combo. Now all i need is crucup, 83p stove and a windbreak. Oh, and its more robust too. :D

All the best

Phil

I estimate that at approx 27ml of fuel (approx 1 ounce) so burn time of 8 mins approx is about right for 1 ounce of meths in a pressurised alcohol stove of this size.

I'm guessing but looking at your photo's I'd say with holes a little higher, you'd get around 2 to 2.5 ounces of meths in the stove giving a burn time of around 15 to 20 mins which would be good, I'll have to give it a try, worth a punt for £1.

Looks like the thicker aluminium of the drinking bottle (compared to thin coke/pop can) is providing better heat transfer & retention from flame to stove body for fuel vaporisation and so it's not having all of it's heat sucked out of the stove when the pot is placed on top and so it doesn't snuff out.

[Roadkillphil]

You are kinda limited on the height of the stove due to the distance between the top of the bottle, down the taper of the neck to the widest point of the bottle, as once put together the top of the bottle must be touching the inside base of the stove..... if you get what I mean.
Also I used a drawing pin, pushing and twisting to make the holes, rather than a drill bit... this was purely cos I didnt have a drill bit small enough for the job, and I wanted to get it done. Works ok though :D

[paul standley]

Got ya Phil - key point is that it works well...

[Martin]

I wonder what the optimum jet diameter is on this then? I guess it would be good to start with a 1.5mm drill bit and bore them out to 2mm if it proves too small. Any thoughts on this chaps?

Martin

[bigzee]

I wonder what the optimum jet diameter is on this then? I guess it would be good to start with a 1.5mm drill bit and bore them out to 2mm if it proves too small. Any thoughts on this chaps?

Martin
The problem with drill bits that small is they have a tendancy to snap before completion of the job in hand, which as well as annoying means you have to wrestle the remains from the half-drilled hole. For this kind of project a thumb-tack (I bought a small box of map pins for pence) is fine. Even a drinks bottle is thin and soft enough for this and should you choose a slightly larger diameter you push through and rotate to widen, or for smaller diameter - just push tip through. An awl sharpened to finer tip and hardened with fire/water also suffices.

I currently have a debate going on in my brain regards number of jet holes and the diameter of each. A smaller dia. hole tends to produce a longer throw on the jet, as does a lower number of holes. The gas pressure will be reduced by greater numbers and greater diameters. You also have to factor in the whole temperature of the burner during the cycle of heating, pressurizing and the pot going from cold to hot. Complicated (but fascinating) business!

[Martin]

I was planning on using the drill press in the maintenance department to drill the holes so I don't think it will snap, as long as I take it steady. Makes sense about the length of throw of the flame with a smaller diameter hole. Therefore, I'll start with the 1.5mm dia at say 10mm centres and see how we go.

Watch this space. :)

Martin

[Adam Savage]

I was planning on using the drill press in the maintenance department to drill the holes so I don't think it will snap, as long as I take it steady. Makes sense about the length of throw of the flame with a smaller diameter hole. Therefore, I'll start with the 1.5mm dia at say 10mm centres and see how we go.

Watch this space. :)

Martin

I shall be waiting to see the outcome of this fundamental research, into stove physics

[paul standley]

The problem with drill bits that small is they have a tendancy to snap before completion of the job in hand, which as well as annoying means you have to wrestle the remains from the half-drilled hole. For this kind of project a thumb-tack (I bought a small box of map pins for pence) is fine. Even a drinks bottle is thin and soft enough for this and should you choose a slightly larger diameter you push through and rotate to widen, or for smaller diameter - just push tip through. An awl sharpened to finer tip and hardened with fire/water also suffices.

I currently have a debate going on in my brain regards number of jet holes and the diameter of each. A smaller dia. hole tends to produce a longer throw on the jet, as does a lower number of holes. The gas pressure will be reduced by greater numbers and greater diameters. You also have to factor in the whole temperature of the burner during the cycle of heating, pressurizing and the pot going from cold to hot. Complicated (but fascinating) business!

Spot on bigzee...

Personally, I'd go for 0.5 to 1.0 mm dia holes and 16 in number to start with. You can make holes bigger afterwards if required but you can't make em smaller...!.

A good trick with these burners that has worked well for me on pop can stoves and would be even better on thicker walled drinking bottles, is to make the holes (however you decide to do it) and then with a map pin or whatever, insert it into the hole at 90 degrees to the side wall and rock the map pin upwards so that you are pulling (distorting) the bottom part of the hole out slightly and the top part of the hole in slightly.

This has the effect of directing the jet upwards more and closer to the side walls of the stove. This solves issue of outward shooting jets and helps the flame get heat into the stove for vaporisation. It will enlarge the hole slightly in the process so starting smaller with holes is a good idea if you try this technique.

If you do this and give it a test burn and let it burn out, you'll see that it leaves an interesting 'petal' pattern around and above the holes in the metal.

[bigzee]

Yes Paul (once again arriving at the same hymn-sheet of conclusions) I tend to angle the holes in the same way to maximise the heat up towards the intended target. Although I've mostly put holes on top like trangia et al 'cos it seems logical!

Martin - do you work for AUDI by any chance..vorsprung durch teknich! If I every think I've hit upon a world-beating idea then I'll get a prototype machined up and reverse-engineer a drawing for possible production. Until then it seems simpler to "bash'n'slash in the garage until a therory has been proven.

[Martin]

Martin - do you work for AUDI by any chance..vorsprung durch teknich! If I every think I've hit upon a world-beating idea then I'll get a prototype machined up and reverse-engineer a drawing for possible production. Until then it seems simpler to "bash'n'slash in the garage until a therory has been proven.

Ha ha. As you can tell, I have a rather analytical approach to things. Sadly, this frequently gets in the way of free thinking and can be a barrier to action. You could say I'm a perfectionist, others could just say I'm weird; I call it attention to detail. :D

Martin

[bigzee]

Ha ha. As you can tell, I have a rather analytical approach to things. Sadly, this frequently gets in the way of free thinking and can be a barrier to action. You could say I'm a perfectionist, others could just say I'm weird; I call it attention to detail. :D

Martin
Can't fault you for that Martin. The devil is in the detail - as many explorers and srvice personnel have discovered to their cost!

[Martin]

Can't fault you for that Martin. The devil is in the detail - as many explorers and srvice personnel have discovered to their cost!

No, the devil is in the little voices in my head. :evilgrin::evilgrin::evilgrin:

Martin

[Adam Savage]

No, the devil is in the little voices in my head. :evilgrin::evilgrin::evilgrin:

Martin

Should we start worrying????

[Ashley Cawley]

...Now all i need is crucup, 83p stove and a windbreak...If any of you are in need of a cheap windshield see my article on how to make one (http://www.naturalbushcraft.co.uk/kit/reviews/making-a-stove-windshield-budget-bushcraft.html). Inspiration for that design came from Martin.
T^

[Adam Savage]

Mr Poundland came to my rescue with 5 shiny new allu bottles today. Projects will commence shortly.

http://i1024.photobucket.com/albums/y304/crazysaint22/projects%20and%20equipment/06052011623.jpg

[Ben Casey]

I think I will have to get some just for the carbs :)

[Adam Savage]

I think I will have to get some just for the carbs :)

Thats why I got 5, to steal the crabs for my ridgeline. I don't like the gold ones I have on it now, and I swapped the silver ones for your two road pins LOL

[Ben Casey]

My two road pins :confused2: LOL

Sorry just realised what you mean LOL

[Adam Savage]

My two road pins :confused2: LOL

Sorry just realised what you mean LOL

Yeah those two metal things you gave me at the RV haha

[paul standley]

I couldn't stay sat on the sidelines any longer... Here is my version of the £1 ($1) stove (one of the £1 aluminium drinks bottles from Poundland)...!!

The specs are:-

Weight = 49 grams
Total height = 68 mm
Diameter = 71 mm
Heigth from base to centre line of holes = 48 mm
number of holes = 16
Diameter of holes = 1.5 mm (map pin/drawing pin size)
Fuel capacity = 120 ml (approx 3.5 ounces)
Total burn time = TBC - didn't run it end to end, will do some further mods and then re-test with a full burn time review.

All these images are version 1 from tonight, version 2 to follow over the weekend...!

Conclusions... This version holds a lot of fuel (my original main objective) and so when it's full, getting the stove up to heat to produce a bloom takes 3 minutes when the fuel in the centre pot is lit because all that fuel is cold and takes time to reach vaporising temp:

Found that priming it externally using a small amount of fuel in a primer tray (tin foil) brings it to a full bloom in just 30 seconds so that is where my v2 focus will be.

This stove burns fast and very hot and suits larger diameter pots or kettles because the stove itself is wide at 71 mm. Boil times seem like they would be very fast but I haven't done any proper boil time testing yet.

Overall first impression is that for bigger cooking/boiling jobs it's probably going to work very well and I like it, but for boiling a cup of water in your average enamel mug, it's not the best option.... (sledge hammer to crack a nut)

And a word of caution - making & using alchohol stoves of any sort presents some risks as you are really "playing with fire" and familiarity does breed contemp as I found to my cost tonight...! - I got a burn on the hand because I got complacent because I've made loads of stove over the last 18 months and took a short-cut on something and it was only my lightning reactions that prevented a bigger issue and potential fire.

That said - Just be sensible and enjoy DIY stove making, I love it...!

1332 1333 1334 1335

I used my small drill press as a "press" to push the inverted top section into the bottom section, worked a treat.

[Adam Savage]

great write up Paul. Like the way you cut the circumference with the horizontal drill mount.

[bigzee]

Nice work there from "the stovemeister". Like the disc-cutter/stop block set up particularly. I've used the disc-cutter (mounted in vice) on s/s and tin cans, but for most ali containers a hacksaw and can nestled in top of vice (not squeezed) will also suffice. With gentle forward strokes and a not too sharp blade this will work on a marked line if a disc cutter is not available.

This is good technical data - you're obviously taking the correct scientific approach here Paul, with plenty of notation at each stage, although wallpaper might be better for this if you're doing lots (isn't loo roll difficult to write on?).

[bigzee]

I've just had a brainwave (which I thought I'd share although I've not tried it yet). A lot of these designs involve squeezing one thing inside another, but both of the same diameter, which is not ideal as, although it makes a tight fit, it does tend to distort the inside section and produce a "pleat" which may not be obvious. This has the detrimental effect of sometimes channeling gas/fuel out between the side walls when pressure is up - which can cause a bit of panic!

How about (when both sections are cut and ready to press together) putting the internal bit in the freezer, and just prior to assembly heating the external section. A bit like the jam-jar lid hot tap trick, this may produce a looser fit for assembly, but tighen as temperatures mediate later.

???

Discuss.

[Adam Savage]

I've just had a brainwave (which I thought I'd share although I've not tried it yet). A lot of these designs involve squeezing one thing inside another, but both of the same diameter, which is not ideal as, although it makes a tight fit, it does tend to distort the inside section and produce a "pleat" which may not be obvious. This has the detrimental effect of sometimes channeling gas/fuel out between the side walls when pressure is up - which can cause a bit of panic!

How about (when both sections are cut and ready to press together) putting the internal bit in the freezer, and just prior to assembly heating the external section. A bit like the jam-jar lid hot tap trick, this may produce a looser fit for assembly, but tighen as temperatures mediate later.

???

Discuss.

I'm liking your train of thought on this

[Adam Savage]

Just knocked out the components for the stove, using very basic methods of machining LOL. The inner section is in the freezer, as bigzee suggested. When it's cold I will assemble and test boil times for my Tesco 1lr kettle. And also try and check jet temp with my infrared thermometer. I have only put 8 x 1mm jets in for now, to see how they do.

http://i1024.photobucket.com/albums/y304/crazysaint22/projects%20and%20equipment/07052011633.jpg

http://i1024.photobucket.com/albums/y304/crazysaint22/projects%20and%20equipment/07052011634.jpg

http://i1024.photobucket.com/albums/y304/crazysaint22/projects%20and%20equipment/07052011635.jpg

http://i1024.photobucket.com/albums/y304/crazysaint22/projects%20and%20equipment/07052011636.jpg

http://i1024.photobucket.com/albums/y304/crazysaint22/projects%20and%20equipment/07052011637.jpg

I also found that these poundland bottles wedge perfectly inside the rim of small Hammerite tins, may be useful for other stove projects etc.

http://i1024.photobucket.com/albums/y304/crazysaint22/projects%20and%20equipment/07052011638.jpg

http://i1024.photobucket.com/albums/y304/crazysaint22/projects%20and%20equipment/07052011639.jpg

[bigzee]

Nice pics.Like the 2x mitre block vice idea as well. I'll look forward to your experiences with the hot/cold bits thing.

[paul standley]

Hold & cold is a classic engineering method for interference fitting of components so should work a treat but might still need some 'pressing' action.

Looking fwd to seeing your stove set up in action Saint, would be good to compare different configurations. I had some success with my 2nd version today, I'll post about it later.

bigzee - the 'loo paper' was kitchen towel but shot from an introspective angle with a soft focus (A.K. A. cock eyed hand-held phone with dirty lens) but it's a mistake anyone could make :-)

If this project gets out of hand and consumes me then I'll move to the back of wallpaper for my notes.

[Adam Savage]

Thanks guys, just boiled up a litre of the wet stuff. Will post the video for time scale shortly. The hot and cold method didn't seem to make much difference, although I didn't try it without, the result is the same as the original video. A slight bulging at the top of the base section, where the inner is forced into it. When using the stove it dawned on me, any small leaks at the top wouldn't make too much difference, as the two components finish at the same height and the pot/kettle/pan/cru cup sit on this edge and would cover any gaps (well enough to prevent combustion of vapour anyway). Here are the shots of the temps and compression of the components.

The cold bit...

http://i1024.photobucket.com/albums/y304/crazysaint22/projects%20and%20equipment/07052011642.jpg

The warm bit...

http://i1024.photobucket.com/albums/y304/crazysaint22/projects%20and%20equipment/07052011640.jpg

Compression (found that Hammerite tin held the narrow adge just right)...

http://i1024.photobucket.com/albums/y304/crazysaint22/projects%20and%20equipment/07052011643.jpg

http://i1024.photobucket.com/albums/y304/crazysaint22/projects%20and%20equipment/07052011644.jpg

[bigzee]

Paul: I'm quite sure it will get out of hand and consume you (1% inspiration 99% perspiration!)

Adam: I think you've got a valid point regards irregularities of fit on this design - with a flat pot base. It would after all only provide another small upwards jet which is what's desired.

[Adam Savage]

Still waiting for the video to convert to a usable format lol. It's 15:28 long including the pouring or meths, lighting, priming, bit of enormous jet action (I thought..."epic fail"...but it sorted itself not long after), eventual boiling, removal of kettle and snuffing of the stove.

[Adam Savage]

Also apologies for the mess of the workshop :p

[Adam Savage]

Looks like the upload to youtube won't be finished until I have left yo go out tonight. If you just can't wait that long, it should be on my channel in a couple of hours LOL.

http://www.youtube.com/user/crazysaint222

[Adam Savage]

The video is being processed, but it's on. Had to shorten it a little each end to get below the 15 minute limit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbIar72chxg

[paul standley]

Look fwd to your vid Adam...

My version 2 made the following modifications to my original configuration:-

- Fitted two 3mm dia pop rivets (see photo's) to tie the two pressed half together permanently to avoid any possibility of separation under pressure.

- filled stove cavity with glass fibre loft insulation. This has several benefits... insulations absorb the meths and reduces risk of liquid spillage if stove is tipped over. As the meths is absorbed by the insulation, it increases the surface area of the meths in the stove and aids vaoporisation, helps with initial ignition and blooming time.

- used a "flame spacer" (see photo's) to prevent heat sink effect of the pot and water. 2 pints of cold water and alumium pot is a significant 1 Kg's worth of heat sik if placed straight onto the stove, hence the use of the spacer. This raises the pot 10mm above the top of the stove and allows extra flaming from inside the stove as well as from the outside jets. The flame spacer can be taken off after a couple of minutes or left on for a super fast high heat.

After the mods, I filled with 120 ml of meths and fired it up and got a bloom in 60 seconds just by lighting the fuel in the centre cavity (helped by the glass fibre insulation compared to version 1 which didn't have any loft insulation in it) and placed the flame spacer on the stove and the big pot on top of that and it brought 2 pints of water in a 9" diameter pot in exactly 10 minutes. (would have been faster if I had left the flame spacer on but I took it off after about 3 minutes. (this would have also burned fuel faster of course)

ambient air temp in the workshop was 16'C.

After it got to a boil it carried on holding a full boil for another 20 mins, so total burn time of 30 minutes and in that time, it boiled away three quarters of a pint of water it was boiling so hard.

So... this is a great stove and perfect for boiling a lot of water or cooking food from scratch (not just warming up) ... I'm impressed. It is not difficult to make and is significantly more robust and powerfull for heavier workloads than box standard pop can stoves.

Version 3 is on the drawing board, I'll be looking at flame control/simmer ring ideas.

Paul.

P.S. - Also tried the stove with my normal 4" diameter tea caddy pot and it works fine with that as well.

1340 1344 1343 1342 1341

[bigzee]

!/2 hour boil time?! that's mighty efficient Paul!
I bought a tea caddy pot exactly like that last week reduced to 2.50, but when I excitedly went through the bags later to dig it out, it wasn't there, and had obviously been lost in town or still on the shop counter! Boo hoo....

What the flame spreader made from?

[paul standley]

My caddy is great, works a treat, had a lot of use out of it, hence the colour...!. Used bike brake cable for the handle and a metal ring riveted to the lid so I can put the lid under the pot when it's boiled & hold the ring to act as the tipping point for easy pouring.

Flame spreader is made from the lid of a tin of lemon sweets. It's 10 mm deep and 100 mm diameter. bottom of any tin would do. I reckon anything over 80 mm dia: would do as it just needs to be wide enough to sit across the stove rim, which is around 71 mm.

[Martin]

My caddy is great, works a treat, had a lot of use out of it, hence the colour...!.

My caddy is a useless fecker who hasn't learned how to clean a golf ball and frequently leaves my putter on the previous green!!! :(

Martin

[paul standley]

Love it Martin, I set that one up a treat...!

[bigzee]

My caddy is great, works a treat, had a lot of use out of it, hence the colour...!. Used bike brake cable for the handle and a metal ring riveted to the lid so I can put the lid under the pot when it's boiled & hold the ring to act as the tipping point for easy pouring.

Flame spreader is made from the lid of a tin of lemon sweets. It's 10 mm deep and 100 mm diameter. bottom of any tin would do. I reckon anything over 80 mm dia: would do as it just needs to be wide enough to sit across the stove rim, which is around 71 mm.
I'm hoping the brake cable is from the front of your bike, otherwise you'll be kissing the dirt everytime you deccelarate!
That's (another) good idea - with the lid for tipping. I have a spotted hanky for base-tipping and a bit of copper mains power cable concentric neutral-earth as handle. This is on the "car kit stove" which utilizes my usual burner and a soup tin as pot. When it looks grubby/unheigenic I sling it and use another. a lot of these cans are designed as stackable - so the base of another can be sliced off to create a lid, and 2 or 3 holes punched through one side allows for draining or evidence of steam.

[Adam Savage]

Look fwd to your vid Adam...

My version 2 made the following modifications to my original configuration:-

- Fitted two 3mm dia pop rivets (see photo's) to tie the two pressed half together permanently to avoid any possibility of separation under pressure.

- filled stove cavity with glass fibre loft insulation. This has several benefits... insulations absorb the meths and reduces risk of liquid spillage if stove is tipped over. As the meths is absorbed by the insulation, it increases the surface area of the meths in the stove and aids vaoporisation, helps with initial ignition and blooming time.

- used a "flame spacer" (see photo's) to prevent heat sink effect of the pot and water. 2 pints of cold water and alumium pot is a significant 1 Kg's worth of heat sik if placed straight onto the stove, hence the use of the spacer. This raises the pot 10mm above the top of the stove and allows extra flaming from inside the stove as well as from the outside jets. The flame spacer can be taken off after a couple of minutes or left on for a super fast high heat.

After the mods, I filled with 120 ml of meths and fired it up and got a bloom in 60 seconds just by lighting the fuel in the centre cavity (helped by the glass fibre insulation compared to version 1 which didn't have any loft insulation in it) and placed the flame spacer on the stove and the big pot on top of that and it brought 2 pints of water in a 9" diameter pot in exactly 10 minutes. (would have been faster if I had left the flame spacer on but I took it off after about 3 minutes. (this would have also burned fuel faster of course)

ambient air temp in the workshop was 16'C.

After it got to a boil it carried on holding a full boil for another 20 mins, so total burn time of 30 minutes and in that time, it boiled away three quarters of a pint of water it was boiling so hard.

So... this is a great stove and perfect for boiling a lot of water or cooking food from scratch (not just warming up) ... I'm impressed. It is not difficult to make and is significantly more robust and powerfull for heavier workloads than box standard pop can stoves.

Version 3 is on the drawing board, I'll be looking at flame control/simmer ring ideas.

Paul.

P.S. - Also tried the stove with my normal 4" diameter tea caddy pot and it works fine with that as well.

1340 1344 1343 1342 1341

That's a heavily engineered piece of equipment there. I don't like having a gap between stove and pot, as I find it guzzles the fuel way too quick. Like you say though, it shortens the boil time a lot.

Here's the measure of meths I used for the video run, ambient temp in the workshop was 17 degrees C, so not too far off yours.

http://i1024.photobucket.com/albums/y304/crazysaint22/projects%20and%20equipment/07052011647.jpg

And two of these measures, to equal a litre of the wet stuff.

http://i1024.photobucket.com/albums/y304/crazysaint22/projects%20and%20equipment/07052011645.jpg

Tried to measure the temp of the jets, but the thermometer went to 120 degrees and anything after that, just said "Hi" LOL

[Adam Savage]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbIar72chxg

55 second to jets, 11 minutes to boil. So not a million miles from the Mk2 with fibre glass

[Ben Casey]

Cool vids big flames :D I will have to see how you made it next week

[Adam Savage]

I'll try to remeber to bring it lol

[Ben Casey]

That will be cool I dont trust myself to try and make one as my workshop is the doorstep :) And if it blows I may become homeless LOL

[paul standley]

Adam - interesting that that the stats from our two tests are not a million miles away, just shows there is more than one way to skin a stove :-) - nice video mate.

What shall we make next ?

[Adam Savage]

Adam - interesting that that the stats from our two tests are not a million miles away, just shows there is more than one way to skin a stove :-) - nice video mate.

What shall we make next ?

I've used a large pin to angle the jets up a little. This should make use of those wild, long jets when the meths is high and the pressure is up. I guess the similar results show the consistency, when following the design (more or less), so everyone should expect these kind of figures.

I'm still trying to figure a way to make a mini kelly kettle haha.

[Adam Savage]

That will be cool I dont trust myself to try and make one as my workshop is the doorstep :) And if it blows I may become homeless LOL

I'll knock one up for you if I get chance, if not you can have this one and I'll make another. I have four more bottles left to play with haha

[Ben Casey]

Thats okay mate I need a workshop bad style like I say sitting on the door step confines me a bit :( But I get to play with sticks LOL

[paul standley]

I'm still trying to figure a way to make a mini kelly kettle haha.

The Holy Grail - a DIY backpacking Kelly Kettle... no pressure then :-)

[Adam Savage]

The Holy Grail - a DIY backpacking Kelly Kettle... no pressure then :-)

I need some alloy wire and gas for my mig i think lol

[pbrito]

My stove project pics... 50 mL of alcohol, 8' to boil 500 mL of cold water.
It was a bigger bottle, larger and taller, with 10 holes made with a drill and a 2mm bit, and it really needs priming to be efficient.
Nevertheless, a joly good project!

http://c3.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Ndd065a58/8479257_ugv3e.jpeg

http://c9.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N7d06dbde/8479259_GByG7.jpeg

http://c5.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Nf0069265/8479260_ntEZY.jpeg

http://c9.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N9b06c5a8/8479266_uBpiy.jpeg

http://c8.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Ne406e0dd/8496305_7lFgR.jpeg

http://c1.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N980685b0/8496306_1fVfy.jpeg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRPvYee48LI&feature=player_embedded

[Martin]

That looks great Pbrito. Thanks for sharing. Would you make the holes smaller next time or leave them about the same?

Martin

[pbrito]

That looks great Pbrito. Thanks for sharing. Would you make the holes smaller next time or leave them about the same?

Martin

I guess smaller holes means more holes or you'll get high pressure inside and big flames. The 5th previous picture shows the flames still under the pot's bottom, and even with small pots (ok, maybe not with mugs) this stove will do just fine.

In this picture you can see that the flame doesn't spread that much outwards...

http://c8.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Nbc06f82d/8496304_hCgp0.jpeg

... and the primer was still burning, otherwise it would take to much time (and alcohol) to work properly!

[bigzee]

What was in the container originally? - it looks like some kind of "hazardous" chemical.

[pbrito]

What was in the container originally? - it looks like some kind of "hazardous" chemical.

It was diethyl ether. We use it in our lab... a lot!! :o
Right now I have another two empty bottles for more projects!

[bigzee]

That's pretty handy then. You just keep "banging away" with the same recycled container 'til you think it's perfect (trust me- this may take some time!)

Good looking stove though - it looks fairly sturdy and big enough for a long burn or a large pot for several people.

[Adam Savage]

I guess smaller holes means more holes or you'll get high pressure inside and big flames. The 5th previous picture shows the flames still under the pot's bottom, and even with small pots (ok, maybe not with mugs) this stove will do just fine.

In this picture you can see that the flame doesn't spread that much outwards...

http://c8.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Nbc06f82d/8496304_hCgp0.jpeg

... and the primer was still burning, otherwise it would take to much time (and alcohol) to work properly!

Great build there pbrito. Looking to find a smaller ally bottle/container myself, to make a mini version.

[paul standley]

Nice stove... and particularly good for larger diameter pots/kettles. I imagine it would hold a large amount of alchohol which would make it versatile and be very robust in the field.

Priming is usually req'd for stoves of this size and it's interesting to see how many priming options people come up with.

bigzee's use of aluminium "hair mousse/ deodorant" style containers is a good way to get a smaller diameter stove for using with mugs, small pots etc.

Interestingly, i spent a couple of hours in the garage tonight building some basic (embarassingly basic) unpressurised alchohol stoves out of mushy pea, tuna and soup tin cans and it's pretty amazing just how efficient these stupidly low tech things can be. I'll probably do a thread on them in the next couple of days but here's hint ....1 pint of water in a camp kettle brought to rolling boil in 6 minutes with 40 ml of alchohol !

I'm a keen DIY stove maker and I love making both pressurised and unpressurised meths stoves and enjoy the engineering crafting side of it but I have to say, the 'hobo' meths stoves I made tonight were an eye opener and made with very basic tools, quickly and with no real skill and really work well so figure that out...!

Anyway, great job pbrito.

[Adam Savage]

Just made a pellet tin stove, think it'll work ok. Just need to drill the holes in the top, but trying to decide on how many. As the jets aim directly up I don't think it will make any difference.

http://www.naturalbushcraft.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?1337-Pellet-Tin-Stove&p=15887&viewfull=1#post15887

[pbrito]

Need some help!!!
I was trying to make a double-wall stove from a deodorant can, like the BIOS from MiniBull. I used a vise to enlarge the 'pattern' and to press the other can inside the 'pattern', and got this!!!
Any ideas, suggestions??

http://c5.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N8b06ac6d/8692391_eSEpI.jpeg

http://c6.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N3b067cc3/8692390_9acqm.jpeg

http://c10.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Na006c5d8/8692388_uY11a.jpeg

[Adam Savage]

Never had any success with that process myself, so am unable to offer any advice mate, sorry. :(

[paul standley]

Same here, I've never made one of these double wall, rolled edge stoves, but I've made just about everything else so maybe we can figure something out.

The section in the image, is that the 'pattern piece' or the 'other' piece buddy and which fits into what. If you've got a phot of the 2nd piece, we could review and look at options...

Paul

[Adam Savage]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBk21lmr6IM

Basically the same idea as this one Paul.

[paul standley]

OK, thanks Adam, got the idea now...

So there's a couple of things that might be worth looking at...

1. make sure that the outside cut edge of the stove that you are rolling is clean and burr free so that the cut edge doesn't hang up on in the die.
2. Use a light lubricant like WD40 or similar on the inside of the 'die' and outside of the stove section to help the stove walls to work their way around the curve of the die.
3. check that the stretched internal diameter of the die is as large as it can be to minimise drag when the stove section slides into the die
4. If using a vice as the means of compression, make sure the whole set up is square on so that pressure is applied evenly as any slight 'angle' will probably cause the compression roll to fail. As per the video link Adam put up, maybe a car jack approach would be a better way.

[Adam Savage]

Paul, do you think wrapping a piece of tin around the piece being forced into the die, with a jubilee clip tightened around it just enough to let it slide but not push out and deform, and a push plate of equal diameter to the base of the can, would help reduce the chances of collapse?

[Adam Savage]

If that makes any sense at all lol

[paul standley]

Paul, do you think wrapping a piece of tin around the piece being forced into the die, with a jubilee clip tightened around it just enough to let it slide but not push out and deform, and a push plate of equal diameter to the base of the can, would help reduce the chances of collapse?


I think I see what you mean...!

Adding a 'plunger sleeve' which is what I think you mean might work but it might be difficult for pbrito to make.

I imagine that it takes a couple of squashes before the technique is mastered. I love the way the ali just rolls around the die but usually, this type of process is done in manufacturing using highly polished precision tooling so i'm amazed it works at all...!

[Adam Savage]

Think I have another project to do lol.

[jbrown14]

I've been reading through this thread, and there are a couple of things that I've learned about alcohol (meths) stoves that may help out.

1. The heating of the aluminum (yeah, I didn't spell it aluminium...:D) during pre-heating brings the alcohol in the reservoir to the boiling point and begins vaporisation. This is why the jets on the side take a few minutes to start, and why they are able to be self-sustaining in a manner of speaking. The alcohol in most stoves with an open center cavity builds up almost no pressure to speak of, it's merely the alcohol vapor having a lower flash-point than the liquid which allows it to sustain the jets on the side while the center is apparently almost flameless. So, really unless you're creating a stove in which you're filling a reservoir and placing a tight cap on it, you're really not going to get too much pressure to worry about.

2. Putting out an alcohol stove is possible, think of a candle snuffer. Invert a pot or can slightly larger than the stove over the entire assembly, and you'll snuff the flame. Give it a minute. I've done it.

3. Getting very small holes with very small drill bits is not a job for power tools, unless you're masochistic. Most drill bits of extremely small size are actually better off being used in a "pin vise (http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/hca/hcahcar0696.htm)." Used much like a jeweler's screwdriver, with index finger placed on the top and providing a minimum of pressure, and thumb and middle fingers providing the rotation; a pin vise will allow you to drill extremely small holes.

[paul standley]

Two countries divided by a common language..!

All very good points Jbrown14 especially about using power tools to drill tiny holes. On the topic of holes, using a map pin or similar to make very small holes works well but the main difference to drilling is that using a pin (pushing from the outside of the stove wall) creates a tiny tapered burr on the inside of the hole that slightly disrupts the smooth flow of vapour (or vapor...!) out from inside the stove. It's a minor point but if you can drill, I think this gives a better job.

[pbrito]

Same here, I've never made one of these double wall, rolled edge stoves, but I've made just about everything else so maybe we can figure something out.

The section in the image, is that the 'pattern piece' or the 'other' piece buddy and which fits into what. If you've got a phot of the 2nd piece, we could review and look at options...

Paul

So, here are the two pieces together...

http://c3.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N6a0621b6/8695261_zjAyJ.jpeg

... and a detail of the stove's edge after the 'crash'. It seems that it started to curl instead of curving down!!

http://c2.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Neb061b66/8695260_p74sI.jpeg

I used two metal discs with the vise to get an evenly compression on both cans... anyway, I will give another try and use some lub.

[Adam Savage]

Looked to the shape, at the bottom of a lynx can, last night. Looks like the angle might not be correct for the curve, as it slopes at a pretty flat gradient, but if you have seen this stove made before with the same materials it should be possible.

[pbrito]

Looked to the shape, at the bottom of a lynx can, last night. Looks like the angle might not be correct for the curve, as it slopes at a pretty flat gradient, but if you have seen this stove made before with the same materials it should be possible.

Yeah... I was also thinking the same after watching carefuly the 'ultimate alcohol sotve' video. That's probably the reason. I just got two cheaper deodorant cans and didn't think about it!

[Adam Savage]

Soon as I have another empty can I will have a crack. Learn by doing as they say. might be easier to tell what's happening, feeling what it's doing and watching it react to the forces.

[paul standley]

OK, having seen the images now it's clear that the edge is rolling in on itself instead of rolling around the curve of the die base and then carrying on straight.

As Adam says, if it's been done before with this can type then try some lub and have another bash and let us know how you get on.

[Outbackgear]

I'm very happy to find this thread, and to learn of your successes with this stove. If anyone has questions on how it's built I would be happy to help.

Scott

[Ashley Cawley]

I'm very happy to find this thread, and to learn of your successes with this stove. If anyone has questions on how it's built I would be happy to help.

Scott
Welcome to our community Scott and thanks for sharing.

[Adam Savage]

Here's the humble video of me making my second one (for savagewolfrm), enjoy...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owltRwuUIEw

[jus_young]

Damn that man works fast! It even looks like you cleaned out part of the workshop to make the vid :D

[Adam Savage]

Damn that man works fast! It even looks like you cleaned out part of the workshop to make the vid :D

lol, The workshop got cleaned out a few days ago, so thought I may as well use the space haha.

[Ivan]

Nice one Adam Spielberg/Tony Hart , like that , just a little preturbed that you have a new best bushcraft buddy ! wheres mine ?
You cant moan 6and half mins including boil !

[Adam Savage]

Nice one Adam Spielberg/Tony Hart , like that , just a little preturbed that you have a new best bushcraft buddy ! wheres mine ?
You cant moan 6and half mins including boil !

I could make you one, but you'd never use it lol. Heck I never use the other one I made haha. I'll sort you one out, don't worry.

[paul standley]

Nice vid Adam, I can see the Discovery channel knocking on your door soon at this rate buddy...

Re: your $1/£1 stove burner - I made one a while back (mine was taller with larger capacity) but otherwise identical and also with mine, the priming time (time to full bloom) was a good 2 minutes. I now use it with a small piece of tin foil as a primer tray which speeds up blooming a lot but adds no weight.

I noticed with mine that it's a hot stove and pretty powerfull as meths stoves go and perfect for wider pots & great with a frying pan.

[Adam Savage]

Thanks Paul. The last one I made was a little taller, but only by 3/4 of an inch. You're right about the larger/wider pots, I had to angle my jets upward, with a panel pin, to bring them inward a little. Seems to prime faster than a trangia, so not too worried about that side of things :)

[Ashley Cawley]

Enjoyed the vid and music, thanks for sharing Adam. I prefer your new logo on your vid and site at the mo.
T^

[Adam Savage]

Thanks Ash. Much appreciated buddy. :)

[LandRoverMatt]

very good video mate love watching you videos people who are reading this check out mattdoughty1 s videos and who ever im subbed to :)

[Adam Savage]

Thanks Matt, nice plug too lol.

Matt's YouTube channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/mattdoughty1), check it out.

[LandRoverMatt]

thanks mate crazysaint222's channel http://www.youtube.com/user/crazysaint222