scouts,cubs and beavers.

[fish]

when old baden powel started it up i guess he had never contemplated political correctness,its killed the appeal of the organisation,3 of my 4 boys are members and loath it,but we keep taking them as as we home school them they need the socialisation with other kids.Problem is all they do is crap,making paper aeroplanes,word searches and pass the parcel,theres sod all wood craft/bushcraft stuff,even their night hike badge was earned walking a mile through lanes lit with streetlamps! the local groups are dying,Bourton boasts 5 members and Mere group about the same,kids dont want this crap earning their I.T badge ,friendliness badge,healthyness badge,home help badge ,pet keeping badge and on it goes,compare that to the badges of the mid twentieth centuary trapping,fishing,navigation by stars,camp craft,fire lighting etc,little wonder it has become little more than a creche and drop in for kids who are so badly behaved the social services pay ! whilst i appreciate there is a fine history and the volunteers staff do sterling work the whole organisation has become a joke,hell they even pledge allegience to a country that doesnt legally exist anymore! what is needed is a roots up refurb,get back to bob a job ,there really isnt a peado behind every hedge! ,get out in the woods or fields and do stuff like normal kids used to,learn how to use a knife they are a tool not a weapon,my kids know and can do more bushcraft than all their leaders combined,sadly the politically correct idiots at the top will not change and ultimately will kill the organisation.

(rant over)

what are your experiences with the organisation? do they do bushcraft in other groups?

[Tony1948]

I agree 100% Fish.I sore some Trangia stoves up for sail on Ebay from a girl gide group.The leader said under new H&S they could'ant use them eny more becouse of the open flame on the burner.If one gets burnt that how you now not to do it again.

[comanighttrain]

Political Correctness is turning us onto a country of fairies.

[Aaron Rushton]

i am a young leader in ym scout group and istrive to include as many bushrafty things as possible. unfortuneatly, cubs and beavers are a bit of a joke and are more collecting badges and arts and crafts. but promise your boys if they stcik it out (and have a half decent scout group) it will get better! i was recently a young leader on a camp and i got a chance to give them some of my own ideas for activities. the ones i contributed were:
animal tracks: the night before i set out some wet sand trays on game trails, points near streams, crossings and so on. we were very lucky to be camping near the forest of dean where there is lots of wildlife, the scouts really enjoyed going around the different 'track-traps' as we called them, to see what was next. we could not afford to get a park ranger to show us around but i had my own knowledge of british mammals to share with them. overally we trapped the tracks of: badgers, foxes, mink, roe deer, countless birds, squirrels and rabbits. all in just 6 well palces traps!
feather sticks: we had to make a fire every day to cook our meals, and paper use (apart from what we got off the tins we used) was banned. i taught the scouts how using feather sticks can get your fire going quicker. this wasnt really an activity but more of just passing on knowledge.
safe use of knives, axed, saws and other blades: i did an hour with each patrol (3 patrols of 5) to teach them this.

these were jsut the idead i contributed but in the entire week camp activities included:
climbing, kyaking, building and doing an obstacle course (exercising knots and lashings), star gazing, bottle rocket building, bat finding, caving and foraging (basics, whats safe, whats not)
i was a young leader at a cub group for a short time but i jsut couldnt bare it. log decorating with tinsel and sequins, making paper cards ect... they enjoyed the games i brought with me (BANG! 4 cornered volleyball ect) the latter i was told not to do by the leaders as it was considered too 'rough' :confused2: non-contact game?? there is a little bit of shoving, but thats nothing! anyway, i quit and now im with scouts which is better. we still do 1 night in 3 roughly where we dont teach them practical skills, but more learning about another culture or something.
just my experiences.

[Realearner]

I don't have any involvement with the organisation, but when I was young my mother was arkela to our local pack.
I remember going on day camps and we would be able to climb trees build shelters and play all kinds of boys games without any troubles.
But as the thread has suggested there are too many rules and health and safety, what a joke.
I work in industry, and h&s are a pain, usually someone in an office who has never been anywhere or done anything closely resembling the risk they are assessing.
So yes I agree things need to be turned around soon or we are going to have a bunch of scaredy cats running around in cotton wool, mind you loads of good tinder ha ha!!!!

[jus_young]

I'm afraid to say, with no disrespect to them, that the leaders are the issue here. I am an ASL which translates into Assistant Scout Leader (second in the food chain) and the kind of things that you would like to see your kids doing would be classed as every day activities with our lot. But then the reason that they are doing these activities is because I am there to guide them. Before I was asked to join, these types of activities existed to a degree but the knowledge of the other leaders limited how much the Scouts could do. The very reason I was asked to become an ASL was because my son had joined the Beavers, so some association was already there, one of the other leaders new me and my interest in bushcraft and because they recognised themselves that a weakness existed within the group. Unfortunately Beavers and Cubs still have problems as these are staffed by people that do not have the skills to try other things but time constraints and running a business mean that I can only do so much and even that is probably not enough.

Health and Safety - an easy excuse to use. Our Scouts use knives, axes, light fires to cook over, build shelters from whatever is at hand, run through the woods in darkness (but not all at the same time!). The list of activities could go on and on. There are some badges that they need to work on that might be considered a bit more mundane but this is all part of 'intergrating into society'. Sounds like they have all just been released from a youth offenders institution, and sometimes it feels like it, but it is considered a part of preparing them for adult life. We have a mixed group of kids from different backgrounds and the mix of activities are there to cater for all. It does become a babysitting service for some parents as the support from most is non existent but you still work with the kids to make sure that they get something out from it.

Really there is only one thing you can do...

Learn this -

The Scout Promise

On my honour, I promise that I will do my best
To do my duty to God and to the Queen,
To help other people
And to keep the Scout Law


The Scout Law

A Scout is to be trusted.
A Scout is loyal.
A Scout is friendly and considerate.
A Scout belongs to the worldwide family of Scouts.
A Scout has courage in all difficulties.
A Scout makes good use of time and is careful of possessions and property.
A Scout has self-respect and respect for others.

The Scout Motto

Be Prepared


And then join. You will find that all the things you want your kids to do, they can, and more. Shooting, canoeing, climbing, archery all considered health and safety nightmares no doubt but all available to our Scouts on our own district campsite.

[fish]

souinds like the local scout leaders need a kick up the arse then! lol i offered a set of Hunter catapults with half powered bands on them and tuition to our group and they nearly fainted at the thaught!

[jus_young]

Some of it does come down to just how much responsibility the leaders are willing to take. If they think that the rules are there to stop such activities then they are wrong. I am a sparky by trade and just spent the last five years teaching the trade at my local college (time served and now released). I had to deal with H&S all the time but viewed it as a guide to being sensible and make the risks obvious. By doing that you can allow for those risks, sensibly limit some activities until the group has some experience and also 'be prepared' for when things do go wrong, i.e. have a first aid kit ready and a pen with plenty of ink for the paperwork. If parents are informed of the activities before they are undertaken then they can make the decision to remove their loved ones if they so wish. That is how we run the group, no child has yet been taken away or seriously injured. I still have the image of one parent stuck in my head and its probably one I will never forget - she walked into the Scout hall just as her child was swinging a hatchet into a lump of wood with quite some force, a total look of shock. She came up to me a little later as everyone was leaving and thanked me! Her child is known for being a little withdrawn, scared to try anything and would never think about touching a knife let alone an axe. Now the child concerned will try any of the activities but needs a little patience. For me thats what Scouts is about.

[dave budd]

the easy solution to getting moe real stuff into your local scout/cub group is to volunteer your services ;) Even if you can't commit to being a full leader, you can at least offer to help out or run a couple of sessions. Maybe take your catapaults along and get them doing some target practice?

I started being invited along to local cub and scout groups to do things like wild food walks, arrow making/archery, whittling and the like; in the end I though 2if you can'tbeat them, join them". I eventually took over my local scout group and ranit for 3 years. We didn't get as much cool stuff done as I would've liked but that was down to the kids opting to not do certain things rather than them not being on offer. that said they all used knives, bows and lit fires regularly as wel as spending lots of time in the woods!

[Tony1948]

I would love to tech some of theize kids the skills i have lernt over my 63 years,but i have been done by the old bill and lost my shot gun and fire arms licence,IT was 35 years ago mind you, would i be sootable to tech teenagers my skills i dont now,I dont wont to become a scout but to show them wot its all about would be good.To hand somthing down wood be satisfying(to lern how ton spell wood be good as well)Good on you guys that do tetch our kids somthing of the real world.Evon in soupamarets i'v herd kids go AAAAAAAAAAAAAH its all bludy arounld the meat counter or standing in ore at the fish.How menny kids now wots in a beef berger?ears, tails ,nose,asses,and how menny fish you seen with fingers,end of rant and the cider.

[swkieran]

booo to health and safety laws,it's like it everywere and in every organistion/dept,nobody seems to be willing to take responsibility,always passing the buck from one person to another.trouble in britain is weve become to much like america in our outlook,the su ing culture,it's on every tv advert, radio advert firms that offer no win no fee claims,makes people very wary ( if i do something wrong or say the wrong thing ).my ass is goona be in a sling or a massive law suit will be taken against me.as for poltical correctness one of my pet hates that,it even stifles our comedians and us brits were rather good at making comedys etc ,carry on's,on the busses,alf garnett,loads loads more,much better than anything you will find on tv today.well done mrs c blair and youre pond of do gooders

[jus_young]

I have to be honest and say that these days Health and Safety has its place. Unfortunately common sense cannot be taught and, after dealing with post 16 year olds in education, have come to realise that it is something that seems to be bred out from many, but not all, of the current generation coming into the workforce. I am not sure whether it could be classed as natural evolution, probably more to do with growing up in front of the TV and games console rather than experiencing the great outdoors and learning from doing. It has all got a bit over the top though and I can't see it getting any better.

[swkieran]

i would agree justin :),that's why i like this forum so much,it's a fall off youre horse and get back on it attitude:).on a lighter note,i found this little beuty on you tube lol http://youtu.be/LXSlbJp_gHM

[Martin]

The problem with common sense is that it's just not very common!!!

Martin