Dartmoor Trip - Gone Wrong!

[Ashley Cawley]

Recently a friend of mine set off to do a 3 day, solo trip on Dartmoor in November.

After he set off, snow unexpectedly covered parts of the country, the temperature of his first night on Dartmoor dropped to -4.

Considering he was on his own, the next day he decided wisely to call a early end to the trip as the news on his radio said about heavy snowfall around the UK, the cold-spell was staying & to potentially expect more.

My friend had planned to do a lot of walking which got me thinking, here's a scenario for you...

Your up on the moors with a good bag of camping-gear to keep you fed, watered & warm. Snow has unexpectedly comes in, covering the terrain making it hard to see your footing. You slip & fall, you've injured your ankle and can't stand up! You look at your mobile and typical there's no reception!

- How do you think you would react?... (isolated & injured)

- What would you do?... what actions would you take?

[BlackMartlet]

Wow, interesting! I think I'd try to whack some sturdy branches off and perhaps rig up some decent "crutches" or even a walking stick to lean on. Definitely keep the pressure off my injured foot. After that I'd have to keep my wits and my bearing.

[Raikey]

stay put,..

you got shelter, food and water,..

and if you are sensible, a rough route plan will have been left with at least two seperate people

one of which would be a ranger or someone in a similar position.

the dramatic change in weather would prompt a search situation within 24 hours of your planned return day.



then lay back, and enjoy the howl of the wind on your tent,..whilst waiting for the rescue, breakfast tv interview and book deal....

now theres a thought!!!

[Thumbcrusher]

stay put,..

you got shelter, food and water,..

and if you are sensible, a rough route plan will have been left with at least two seperate people

one of which would be a ranger or someone in a similar position.

the dramatic change in weather would prompt a search situation within 24 hours of your planned return day.



then lay back, and enjoy the howl of the wind on your tent,..whilst waiting for the rescue, breakfast tv interview and book deal....

now theres a thought!!!

YEP - that's what I'd do!!

[JonnyP]

Not too many trees on the moor, so chances are you would of injured your ankle a long way from somewhere to make a crutch..

I would sit down and maybe make a cuppa and consider all the possibilities.. I would look at the map and consider hobbling to the nearest house, or wood, or even high spot (to try for the phone signal). I would take ibuprofen to help reduce the swelling.
Wether I stayed put or tried to make it out, would depend on how bad the ankle was, and how bad the weather was, and where I was, and how far into my trip I was, so its hard to call that question from my armchair, but I would certainly sit and consider my options very carefully before doing anything..

[Ashley Cawley]

Wow, interesting! I think I'd try to whack some sturdy branches off and perhaps rig up some decent "crutches" or even a walking stick to lean on. Definitely keep the pressure off my injured foot. After that I'd have to keep my wits and my bearing.
Easier said then done; it'd probably take a while with good physical mobility & strength to make a crutch from wood so I'm not sure if you could do it with a broken-ankle (don't know I've not had one!). I suppose if there was a fence-post or something obvious nearby you might look at it as an option.


stay put,..

you got shelter, food and water,..

and if you are sensible, a rough route plan will have been left with at least two seperate people one of which would be a ranger or someone in a similar position.

the dramatic change in weather would prompt a search situation within 24 hours of your planned return day. then lay back, and enjoy the howl of the wind on your tent,..whilst waiting for the rescue, ...
I like your style! :) Martin did have a route-plan organized & left it with people.

[Ashley Cawley]

... I would sit down and maybe make a cuppa and consider all the possibilities.. I would look at the map and consider hobbling to the nearest house, or wood, or even high spot (to try for the phone signal). I would take ibuprofen to help reduce the swelling..
Some great ideas, especially the brew part ;)
:campfire:

[Raikey]

I like your style! :) Martin did have a route-plan organized & left it with people.

my input may sound a bit text book i realise that , and they say in the UK your never more than 8 miles from a road,..(cant remember who has the credit on that stat!)

but thats ok if there are people using the road ,..

and if its covered in snow then it may as well be the moor in every direction,....

snow is sooo disorienting !...it completley changes the landscape, even if you trod the area for years ,...

so i dint want to sound too H&S,...like a hi vis wearing jobsworth, lol,.....

cos i,m not, i like to enjoy the craft and i even get criticised for being a bit reckless,....in a fun way,.....

but when it comes to exposure in the moorland enviroment even i shape up !! hahaha,..

we have a very similar landscape in South and North Yorkshire,,,,,been in it when the snow hits,....

its pretty, ...for photos,....but not pretty to be in,.....

ok,...not ranting,...just felt i needed to validate Martins choice from my point of view.

nature can be a beautiful goddess,...but she can turn into a right b**ch in the blink of an eye,...lol


Stu

[Ashley Cawley]

As GreenPete's signature says...

Do not mess with the forces of Nature, for thou art small and biodegradable!

[JonnyP]

and if its covered in snow then it may as well be the moor in every direction,....

snow is sooo disorienting !...it completley changes the landscape, even if you trod the area for years ,...

Stu

Your right, and Dartmoor is also one of the toughest places in this Country to learn navigation.

[paul standley]

Interesting mix of responses. I would sit tight, use Ibuprofen, strap the ankle, drink plenty including some warm drinks, check my phone signal frequently (it can swing in and out randomly) and rely on the fact that I had good kit, fuel, adequate water supply (the snow) and a supply of food/snacks.

Worst case scenario - It might be a 2 day wait until I didn't arrive back home and it triggered the alarm so it begs the question, what else could I have done as preparation for such an event ?... Maybe took a flare ? or maybe had a buddy GPS system (can be incorporated into mobile phone GPS map programs) where a buddy can track my exact movements (or lack of them) on a map on a computer via the internet. No distance covered in daylight hours in 3 or 4 hours = potential issue.

[JonnyP]

Also, try texting. A text message does not need as much of a signal as a phone call..

[Ashley Cawley]

Some good stuff.

One thing no one's mentioned yet; with your mobile phone, don't just glance at your mobile and get disheartened thinking; doh! no bars! If you need it try 999 regardless - Remember an emergency call will automatically be re-routed through any available mobile network irrespective of whether you've got signal for your network or not :) So chances are wherever you are in the UK you'd probably get able to get a call out.

That aside, lets say your mobile really isn't working, could be flat or damaged.

Try not to panic! (I bet that's easier said than done when realization sets in that your injured, immobile, alone & unable to contact anyone).

Slow down for your own good, pre-occupy yourself with getting fluids like people have recommended, that in turn is good for your thinking.

If I couldn't hobble & thought it might put me in further danger trying to navigate across a snowy landscape I would sit-tight and wait for rescue, bearing in mind you don't want to deviate from your recorded path and get lost because you want people to be able to find you on your pre-defined route and believe me if your injured on Dartmoor, landscape covered in snow, that's the time your gona mess up a bearing and go wandering in te wrong direction!

- Make yourself as comfortable as possible in the spot your in, see to your injury, meds, support etc.
- Water/Fluids
- Shelter
- Food.
- Keep trying the phone (TXT was a good idea, low-bandwidth more likely to get out)

[Martin]

OK, a few other bits and pieces that you could/should do. As you are now in a survival situation, you should be looking to be rescued as soon as possible, so you need to attract attention. The normal way to do this is to blow your whistle six times followed by a pause of one minute followed by six blows and so on and so on. The response to this is three blows. During day light, you could try using a signal mirror, or heliograph, to signal for help. What about building a signal fire? Plenty of wet material about on Dartmoor to generate smoke, that's if you can start a fire in the first place although you will probably have plenty of dry tinder in your kit in an emergency situation.

One of the basic rules of survival is the 'rule of threes' which states that you can survive for three minutes without air, three hours without shelter/heat, three days without water and three weeks without food. This gives you a clue as to what order you should prioritise your needs and shows that foraging for food is probably the least of your worries.

This is a really good thread, keep the ideas coming. Let's hope we never find ourselves in the sort of scenario described but it doesn't hurt to do some thinking about 'what if' just in case.

Martin

[fatsnacka]

to start with i make sure people know where im going and when i should be back stay put stay warm stay fed but rasion it and hope if that fails try to make your way back down the most visable path you can leaving signs of where you have been as much as pos and the direction you are heading in light a visable fire when you rest or stop for the night

dont know if this is right but its what i would do

thanks

[Edwin]

Why only 3 hours without shelter/heat? Scores of records of people without either surviving for long periods.

[Raikey]

Why only 3 hours without shelter/heat? Scores of records of people without either surviving for long periods.

its taking into account the harshest possible weather/temperature,..

ie,..a blizzard in minus temps would finish a person off without a snow hole or quince etc,....

or even the opposite, without shade, sun exposure can do the same.

[Edwin]

Shackleton, Bligh and Apsley George Benet Cherry-Garrard, are just a few who survived for very very much longer.

[JonnyP]

Shackleton, Bligh and Apsley George Benet Cherry-Garrard, are just a few who survived for very very much longer.

Yep, and some folk can survive longer without 3 mins of air too, but the majority of us cannot. What Martin says is pretty much true for most people, and a good rule to stick too and remember..

[Martin]

Shackleton, Bligh and Apsley George Benet Cherry-Garrard, are just a few who survived for very very much longer.

True Edwin but hypothermia is a killer and, in a survival situation, shelter is one of the first things you should consider given the rule of threes.

Of course there are numerous notable exceptions to the rule but they are notable because they defied the odds. The countless others who have died over the years aren't remembered.

Martin

[Edwin]

What I do think is a problem with modern life is that people are becoming dominated by thoughts that they are doomed, unless.....
Take dehydration, nothing wrong with being thirsty and learning self-control. We are designed for feast and famine of both food and water. I have waited longer in the snow for a lift than three hours as have many people one way or the other. Think of the business of survival times in water and the pessimists claiming how short it is then see people taking a swim off Swanpool beach every day of the year.

I do not deny that cold, lack of food, wet etc are killers but what about the poor homeless on a park bench in this weather? A few die, very sadly, but most wake up to another miserable day.

Shackleton never lost a man on his expeditions and I doubt that they were all exceptional.

[JonnyP]

What I do think is a problem with modern life is that people are becoming dominated by thoughts that they are doomed, unless.....
Take dehydration, nothing wrong with being thirsty and learning self-control. We are designed for feast and famine of both food and water. I have waited longer in the snow for a lift than three hours as have many people one way or the other. Think of the business of survival times in water and the pessimists claiming how short it is then see people taking a swim off Swanpool beach every day of the year.

I do not deny that cold, lack of food, wet etc are killers but what about the poor homeless on a park bench in this weather? A few die, very sadly, but most wake up to another miserable day.

Would you like to take the chance..?

[Edwin]

Would you like to take the chance..?

Of what? Believing that the human body can take it or curl up and die?
I don't say to leave emergency kit and survival bags at home but are we sure that, for example, the Dartmoor Challenge kids are safer wieghed down with so much kit than if they travelled lighter and faster and probably safer?

[Matt]

Your up on the moors with a good bag of camping-gear to keep you fed, watered & warm. Snow has unexpectedly comes in, covering the terrain making it hard to see your footing. You slip & fall, you've injured your ankle and can't stand up! You look at your mobile and typical there's no reception!

- How do you think you would react?... (isolated & injured)

- What would you do?... what actions would you take?
[/QUOTE]

Are we not straying from the thread. Surely every scenario's different...is there a house or road in sight?, did you have reception 1km back? etc etc.
If the afformentioned weren't an option then I would sit tight and make the most of the equipment and supplies I'd taken.

Matt

[leon-1]

Shackleton never lost a man on his expeditions and I doubt that they were all exceptional.

No Shackleton didn't.

However I have spent 4 and a half months on South Georgia based at King Edward Point, I have also travelled around parts of the Island. South Georgia is 100 miles long and 25miles wide, it is 75% glacier and an extremely inhospitable place.

Injuries have a nasty effect on people. You have an injured ankle and footing has become treacherous / uncertain. Don't exacerbate the problem by making the issue worse, if you walk on there is a good chance you will make the problem worse.

Get shelter, get a brew on, asses the situation and the damage / injury to your ankle. DO NOT remove your boot, if the prevailing weather conditions continue to deteriorate, stay where you are, you are warm, dry and out of the worst of it. It is not worth moving until your footing is more certain and you know the extent of the damage to your ankle (after a period of time will it take weight, does it require strapping or more support).
If you have a communications schedule and you have left a trace with people, they will be aware that you are out there, if they cannot contact you and you do not contact them then they will alert the relevant parties. They will find you doing the right thing.

Shackletons trip from the south of the island to Stromness was regarded as somewhat of a miracle even back in the golden age of Antarctic exploration. It would be 40 odd years before someone else attempted that trip and they marvelled at what the three men that crossed the island had achieved with "50 foot of rope and a carpenters adze"

Shackleton was liked by his men, he was down to earth and what he did he did pretty much as a last ditch effort to get his men home, he would not have attempted the walk that he did where nearly all the footing is treacherous with a damaged ankle and he wouldn't have expected any of his men to either, they would have stayed as a member of the shore party.

I visited his grave in Grytviken, it is only a short trip by ski from KEP (Shackleton died in on another exped starting from South Georgia from a heart attack at a later date).

[BlackMartlet]

I was rethinking my first post. For me, it would depend on the distance or stretch I'd have to cover to get back. If it was fairly lengthy I'd stay put, but take care of my rolled ankle.

If you could find a icy cold (if the temp is what you say it was) stream or pool near by and soak my ankle for atleast 20 minutes for each hour, for several hours. This would cut out most of the pain and reduce the inflammation drastically. Ibuprofen wouldn't hurt either.

AND, definitely stay hydrated and fed enough so you had the energy to make it out, whenever you decide it may be.

... you don't know exactly what you'll do, until you're in the situation and then it matters whether you keep your wits and carry through, but I wouldn't stick around any longer than I had to.

[delboy]

I`d find some temporary shelter and get a brew on...I think a lot clearer when I`m comfortable and rested. Next on the list would be to check the ankle damage, if thats pretty bad then I`d sort out something more permanent in the way of shelter, get a fire going and rest the ankle. As long as it isn`t broken then I`d sit it out for a few days until its healed enough, then if I hadn`t been rescued I`d think about walking out of it. All depends on the severity of the injury really.

[MikeWilkinson]

Some interesting responses.

My take - Assuming that I've fallen in the worst area possible - exposed, difficult terrain, miles from any in-habited building then, I think my number one priority would to be find somewhere a little less exposed, even if that is just a depression out of the wind. Next, get a brew on, pain coupled with exposure will probably see the onset of shock - nice hot sweet brew should help counter that. Whilst brew is heating up examine ankle, take painkillers and assess situation. Is the ankle so bad that I cannot walk/hobble to safety. If I cannot walk out, can I get to somewhere well out of the weather and set up shelter. Can I get to the last place I had reception on my phone, my course of action would depend on the answers to these.

Once again assuming the worst - i.e Ankle is broken, Strap up ankle and crawl to somewhere I can setup shelter, leave direction markers as I go - stack rocks, arrows etc... Set up shelter and put on another brew, get marker bag out and setup in most visible spot possible, keep trying 999 or 112 and text messages. Expect rescue after I don't turn up home when I said I would and better half has contacted the rescue services and given them my route card. 3 days max. Sit in shelter and don't panic.

[Bernie]

... I think my number one priority would to be find somewhere a little less exposed, even if that is just a depression out of the wind.

You've either been on the Moors in foul weather or you imagine it well. In cold howling wind I've looked longingly at those depressions when out walking.

[MikeWilkinson]

I Live in the west pennine moors, Gets really cold and really windy - peat bog, so also stays really wet. Any dry depression is a god send. I'm out on it every night and Morning with the Dogs - regardless of weather.

[jonajuna]

shelter...

fire

signal

you can be sure a nice smoky fire will have the locals running to you from miles around on dartmoor given the nature of the ground to catch fire and smolder for months

backed up with the 6 blasts on a whistle (waiting for a minute inbetween and listen for the reply.. 3 blasts) of course, never stop blowing, even when youve had a reply, else they cant locate you

we had same advice when crossing the aussie outback... if you breakdown or get in trouble, whip off a wheel and torch it, the smoke is thick, black and can be seen for hundreds of miles (assuming you have people within hundreds of miles in australia!!)

[fish]

good tip didnt know that.

[fish]

No Shackleton didn't.

However I have spent 4 and a half months on South Georgia based at King Edward Point, I have also travelled around parts of the Island. South Georgia is 100 miles long and 25miles wide, it is 75% glacier and an extremely inhospitable place.

Injuries have a nasty effect on people. You have an injured ankle and footing has become treacherous / uncertain. Don't exacerbate the problem by making the issue worse, if you walk on there is a good chance you will make the problem worse.

Get shelter, get a brew on, asses the situation and the damage / injury to your ankle. DO NOT remove your boot, if the prevailing weather conditions continue to deteriorate, stay where you are, you are warm, dry and out of the worst of it. It is not worth moving until your footing is more certain and you know the extent of the damage to your ankle (after a period of time will it take weight, does it require strapping or more support).
If you have a communications schedule and you have left a trace with people, they will be aware that you are out there, if they cannot contact you and you do not contact them then they will alert the relevant parties. They will find you doing the right thing.

Shackletons trip from the south of the island to Stromness was regarded as somewhat of a miracle even back in the golden age of Antarctic exploration. It would be 40 odd years before someone else attempted that trip and they marvelled at what the three men that crossed the island had achieved with "50 foot of rope and a carpenters adze"

Shackleton was liked by his men, he was down to earth and what he did he did pretty much as a last ditch effort to get his men home, he would not have attempted the walk that he did where nearly all the footing is treacherous with a damaged ankle and he wouldn't have expected any of his men to either, they would have stayed as a member of the shore party.

I visited his grave in Grytviken, it is only a short trip by ski from KEP (Shackleton died in on another exped starting from South Georgia from a heart attack at a later date).

please please tell me you have photo's of that trip!

[fish]

i would snuggle down with my two 19 yearold swedish twin girl sherpa's who i always take on trips to dartmoor in the middle of winter....lol

[Metal mug]

Probably try and get near a well traveled road or path and stay put. Or.... before you set off organise with someone to call them a couple of times a day. If you fail to contact them they would have a map of your route so they could find you.

[jbrown14]

While I've never hiked on the moors (or anything resembling them here in the US) my personal safety procedure may apply to the original theoretical situation.

Whenever I plan a solo hike of any kind, I leave a detailed itinerary with my wife, as well as a date and time at which I will contact her. Also included is the phone number for the nearest New York State Department of Environmental Conservation Ranger Station and the number for the nearest State Police barracks. I tell her, "If you don't hear from me by 10:00 p.m. on Saturday night, call this number first, then this number if you don't get through to the first one." I don't purposely deviate from my itinerary, although I've gotten off the grid once or twice when I had to navigate off trail, and if I did get injured, the plan is to: 1. Stay put, 2. Put up my shelter, 3. Make fire. 4. Eat. 5. Stay put. (yes, I repeated that on purpose. It's very important.)