The lightest way to cook real food on the trail

[comanighttrain]

What is the lightest way to cook real food on the trail?

If one wanted to walk 20 miles a day, travel light and cook (just for example) pork chops, bacon or whatever. What would be the lightest way to do it?

An obvious answer would be "light fire, appropriate stick, put food on stick, hold stick over fire" but the issue there is that fire building is time consuming and this is more for an adventure race type context...

The reason I ask is that I'm trying to cut some food stuffs out of my diet as my teeth are getting wrecked by all the high sugar stuff in rat packs

[bigzee]

I would have thought that a "pop-can" meths. burner would be the best for power to weight ratio. You would want reasonable power for cooking meat, and the light ali. home-made burners are virtually weightless and very compact. A small amount of meths occupies very little space. An ali. or titanium frying pan or wide pot would do for meat.

I'm assuming you want a quick fry of a good protein source here? some of the mini butane/propane burners might be an option if you want a bit of flame control, but would probably add a bit more weight.

[rossbird]

You could take some of your meat pre cooked, just reheat when required.
As long as it's not middle of summer.

[jus_young]

I would probably go with a small gas type stove like this http://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/hi-gear-blaze-titanium-gas-stove-p158215 and use the 100g gas cartridges as they are lighter and easily obtainable from various retailers. The stove is pretty good aswell (I have one :) ) but I always carry two cartridges so that one is always full - replace the empty straight away - and also acts as a backup in case one fails or empties unintentionaly.

[Martin]

Agree with Jus. I've got the MSR Pocket Rocket and, depending on where I'm going, I use the very small gas carts or the medium sized ones. The stove weighs very little and the gas carts are what they are. Meths stoves aren't that light considering the weight of the fuel and the container to carry it in.

In terms of food, I've recently adopted an essentially vegan diet which means that I won't have to cook any of my food when I'm out on the trail. Of course, this means that dehydrated foods are a non starter and I will probably be carrying more fruit which weighs a lot, but I will also be carrying plenty of nuts and biscuits etc. I also don't drink tea or coffee any more so I probably won't be carrying a stove at all in future.

That all said, this weekend I will be taking my daughter up to Dartmoor for a couple of days and she doesn't subscribe to my weird dietary habits so I'll be taking all the ususal kit to satisfy her need for hot food. The Pocket Rocket will be going in my bag.

Martin

[Proventurer]

Ashley covered the White box stove (meths), take a look at it, I doubt there's much difference between the weight if any, versus a gas set up for the small trips you describe and it's fast and cheap to run!

[JEEP]

One is tempted to say; popcan stove, wire stand, a light aluminium windshield and a lightwight alu/titanium pot w. lid. But, even with the windshield this set-up uses a lot of fuel, which will also have to be carried.

If you want true lightweight - or smart lightweight as I call it - look et the Eta PackLite from Primus (http://www.primus.eu/Templates/Pages/3_cols_white_middle.aspx?SectionId=5888). The system itself is fairly light, but by far the lightest out there - but, because of the extremely low fuel consumption, this is the lightest set you can carry for hikes exceeding 3-4 days.

You can, however, get almost the same effect with a Trangia 27 and a Trangia gas burner - that is what I do. The system is more versatile (with two pots and a frying pan) and the weight is only slightly higher.

[MikeWilkinson]

Pop can stove, Beer can pot, wire stand, Light weight alu wind shield. Dehydrate your own meals and store in freezer bags (or buy dehydrated meals). Your only worry then is needing enough water.

You can do that for veggie meals too. Martin.

Have a look at these for some recipie ideas.

http://www.backpackingchef.com/dehydrating-food.html

http://pct-hike.randsco.com/Planning/05.1-Recipes.html#recipes

[comanighttrain]

Thanks guys, I might try the pocket rocket and a titanium cooking cup/frying pan...

I don't like using plastics or aluminum in my eating/drinking equipment due to the associated health concerns with those substances

[garethw]

Hi there
I can give another +1 for the MST Pocket Rocket. I use mine in much the same way as Martin states. If I can't or am not allowed light a fire, or don't have the time, this little stove is absolutely brilliant. I've been surprised how long even the medium canisters last.
Mine fits nicely into my cookset drawsring bag with my billies and cutlery.
cheers
Gareth

[Dan XF]

On the Ravenlore website Gary talks about the lightest way to cook is a little fire and all you carry is some metal skewers and a metal mug. The hobo stove demonstrated on here is quick to boil water and you could skewer your meat and cook over the flame. As a veggie though I use the Hindu curries in a foil pouch from Ashoka in ASDA. I have a jetboil stove and drop the foil pouch in there. Very quick but I prefer my hobo stove if I'm not in a hurry. Haven't tried the food dehydraters but have seen them on the backpacking light website. Very interesting idea and it means you can prepare your own foods so you know they haven't got any additives in. Need to be near a good source of water though.

[bigzee]

Thanks guys, I might try the pocket rocket and a titanium cooking cup/frying pan...

I don't like using plastics or aluminum in my eating/drinking equipment due to the associated health concerns with those substances
??? Eh? associated health concerns from Ali and plastic? Anything we ought to know about?

[JEEP]

A while ago some concerns were raised regarding the use of aluminium cookware - general media and the Alzheimer's Society, reported that it had been proved, that the use of aluminium cookware could be linked to Alzheimer's disease. What they actually had was an untested working theory. A series of studies were launched. All amounting to the same result; so far science has yet so find any proof (that be direct aswell as indirect) that the use of aluminium cookware has any measureable negative health impacts. The whole thing was classic fear mongering from the Alzheimer's Society - who got a lot of media atention because of their claims.
Aluminium in antiperspirants has also been linked to breast cancer. Several scientific studies has been unable to establish that link.
In principle, any metal is poisonous, but it goes for most of them, that the amounts you would need to ingest, over a short period of time, in order to experience any negative effects, is significantly bigger, than the amount you are going to ingest over a whole lifetime. Heavy metals and radioactive metals are a diffrent story offcourse.
Actually aluminium is suprisingly non toxic, when compared to stainless steel (which contains chromium oxide). But, it goes for both aluminium and stainless steel, that significant amounts will have to be consumed over a short period, in order to actually have any negative impact on you.
It is, as far as science is conserned, safe to eat from stainless steel and aluminium cookware - and long as you do not eat the cookware itself :)

When it comes to plastics, it it s diffrent ballgame. Plastic is a term that covers a wide variety of components and chemical structures, some variants are completely safe, others have significant (and scientificaly proved) negative health impacts.
Any plastic product meant for use in accordance with food, sold in the EU, needs to abide by some health standards - making them fairly safe. Unfortunally the EU system works very slow - which means that years can pass between science establishes that a component or chemical structure is a health hazard, to the day that component/chemical structure is actually banned within the EU. This process is slowed down further by strong business interest, who object every time a new component/chemical structure is to be banned. This means that while PVC is not allowed to use in plastics meant to be used with food, BpA (bisphenol A) is still legal.
If you go after BpA free plastics, meant for alimentary use, you should be quite safe though.

[Martin]

I pair my Pocket Rocket with one of these from Backpackinglight.co.uk

http://www.backpackinglight.co.uk/product399.asp?PageID=100

I really like this pot although I managed to scorch the bottom the first time I used it as my rat pack meal was too tight on the bottom and it over heated. Hasn't made any difference to the pot but has left a dirty brown mark on the bottom.

Martin

[comanighttrain]

I grew up in a village where aluminium was manufactured...most of the guys who worked with it died younger...

I know its different when the dosage is smaller, but nothing has shown to occur with Titanium

[bigzee]

Yeah...what JEEP said! I'm with him on this.

I was under the impression that titanium was a strengthened aluminium anyway? Working with ali in the thick of heating and manufacturing processes all day every day for years is surely hazardous (before PPE became common). Eating a bit of food cooked on a coated ali pot for a few hours a year must be much less so.

[JEEP]

I stopped using titanium pots a while ago. Titanium is a bad heat conductor, making the food prone to stick on the inside, where the flame touches on the outside, due to lack of proper heat distribution - this is particularily a problem when using meths stoves and to a lesser extent open fire. Stainless steel is almost as bad, but not quite. Aluminium is way better at distributing the heat evenly.

Each to his own offcourse. But, if one is concerned about health issues regarding outdoor cooking, then the fuel used for cooking is a much greater factor. Food cooked over open fire contains many times the cancer causing agents, than food cooked over meths, butane/propane or even white gas. On top of that; you inhale even greater amounts of the same agents + a few others while cooking over said fire. That has never stopped me from cooking over open fire, when appropiate, though.

[rossbird]

Agree with what Jeep says on this issue.
Aluminium was the preferred metal for kitchen extract systems, for many years.
Things changed in the 80's and the new spec called for s/steel canopies. To prevent oxidation falling into food being cooked.
Yet aluminium pans could still be used????

[jus_young]

Ok then, taking ally as being the pot of choice (ie light and a lot less expensive that Ti) what pot would you suggest that could deal with open fire, gas and meths so that your choice of heat can be dictated by the cconditions faced at the time? I do like my Trangia but the pots are not ideal for an open fire (correct me if you think otherwise), so they are limited to meths and gas - which pots do all heat sources?

[rossbird]

The only reason ali' doesn't do it for all fires is, for me, purely down to the thickness of the pot.
To disipate heat well, all metals need to be thicker than we want in our pots.
Ali' pots with a base of 6mm would cope with most heat sources...we wouldn't want to carry them.
As with most things in life there's a trade off.

[comanighttrain]

Hmm yeah I just looked into that... ti has terrible heat conductivity so will have to go with alu for the overall winner. I read a heat reflector can also make a big difference?

[rossbird]

So the pot of choice would be Cast iron...with a camel.

[Martin]

Hmm yeah I just looked into that... ti has terrible heat conductivity so will have to go with alu for the overall winner. I read a heat reflector can also make a big difference?

My Ti cup and the larger pot mentioned above boil water in no time at all. Not sure about the theoretical heat transfer figures but I do know they work just fine and weigh very little. Ti all the way mate. :)

Martin

[rossbird]

For boling water, Martin, no problem.
How does your Ti pot cope with say, frying eggs for example. I'm intrested really.

[jus_young]

For boling water, Martin, no problem.
How does your Ti pot cope with say, frying eggs for example. I'm intrested really.

Me too! I have looked at the Ti for obvious reasons and think that this is probably the only way to go for what I want but would like to be sure before the final investment is made.

[JEEP]

Ok then, taking ally as being the pot of choice (ie light and a lot less expensive that Ti) what pot would you suggest that could deal with open fire, gas and meths so that your choice of heat can be dictated by the cconditions faced at the time? I do like my Trangia but the pots are not ideal for an open fire (correct me if you think otherwise), so they are limited to meths and gas - which pots do all heat sources?

Trangia 501252, 501254, 400124, 400240, 400524, 406280, 406287 and 406241 are made for use over open fire - they are around twice the thickness af a regular Trangia UL pan.

I personally use the 501252, 501254 and 406280 - så does Ray in some of his earlier programs.

[Martin]

For boling water, Martin, no problem.
How does your Ti pot cope with say, frying eggs for example. I'm intrested really.

I have no idea I'm afraid. I can't envisage a time that I would be frying eggs in it to be honest. For me, light weight cookware demands lightweight food and that really means dried stuff but at a push boil in the bag. Sorry, cordon bleu cookery is for base camping and then lightweight isn't an issue.

Having said that, I'm off for the weekend up to Dartmoor with my daughter now. When I get back, i'll make a special effort to fry an egg in it and see how it goes.

Martin

[Dan XF]

I sometimes use a trangia pan with my hobo stove over flame. No probs so far.

[comanighttrain]

Trangia 501252, 501254, 400124, 400240, 400524, 406280, 406287 and 406241 are made for use over open fire - they are around twice the thickness af a regular Trangia UL pan.

I personally use the 501252, 501254 and 406280 - så does Ray in some of his earlier programs.

which would you recommend for my conundrum?

[jus_young]

which would you recommend for my conundrum?

If you want a lightweight Trangia then this has got to be worth a look http://www.trangia.se/english/2924.mini_trangia.html

[jus_young]

Of course you could get the Honey Stove as reviewed a while back by Ashley. http://www.backpackinglight.co.uk/product397.asp

Match it up with gas, meths burner or both and you have a stove for all occasions. Just need a good pot (my sticking point)

[jus_young]

Oh no! Now I have found another one! http://www.backpackinglight.co.uk/product494.asp?PageID=118

I must stop looking, I must stop looking, I must stop looking, I must stop looking, I must stop looking, I must stop looking, I must stop looking...

[Martin]

Oh no! Now I have found another one! http://www.backpackinglight.co.uk/product494.asp?PageID=118

I must stop looking, I must stop looking, I must stop looking, I must stop looking, I must stop looking, I must stop looking, I must stop looking...

I'm afraid it's too late now mate, you are in the advanced stages of SKS. There is no way back but you'll have a garage full of nice, lightweight, shiny new kit. :D

Martin

[paul standley]

What is the lightest way to cook real food on the trail?

If one wanted to walk 20 miles a day, travel light and cook (just for example) pork chops, bacon or whatever. What would be the lightest way to do it?

An obvious answer would be "light fire, appropriate stick, put food on stick, hold stick over fire" but the issue there is that fire building is time consuming and this is more for an adventure race type context...

The reason I ask is that I'm trying to cut some food stuffs out of my diet as my teeth are getting wrecked by all the high sugar stuff in rat packs

I'd recomend a lightweight combination Hobo stove based on a mini rocket stove design that can utilise meths or twigs efficiently, cones etc and a small Ali frypan/saucepan.

[Edwin]

Why buy what is in effect a Hobo stove when they are so easy to make?

[bigzee]

Why buy what is in effect a Hobo stove when they are so easy to make?
I'm sure Mr. Standley wasn't recommending anyone buy something they could make!

[Edwin]

If a fire is a possibility, and they don't take that long, then tin foil might be the answer. To wrap your meat in or even to make a cup/frying pan if you have wire such as a coat hangar. Twigs can be used instead of wire of course thereby cutting out even more weight. However, the prime request was for lightweight meat cookery and foil is the answer.

[paul standley]

I'm sure Mr. Standley wasn't recommending anyone buy something they could make!

Those who know me know my passion for 'home made' and this would be where I come from on this thread, using simple chimney and rocket stove designs in a DIY hobo piece of kit would/could provide a light weight solution to doing more than just boiling water. My last chimney stove/kettle is a modest example...

http://www.naturalbushcraft.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?1506-My-DIY-alternative-to-a-small-Kelly-Kettle-(a-multi-fuel-chimney-Kettle-Jug)

Not shown in the video, but taking the bottle out of the chimney and placing the chimney tube over the fire box and then placing the 'X' pot stand on top of the chimney creates a 'top and bottom loading' chimney/rocket stove that is pretty efficient.

[Martin]

If a fire is a possibility, and they don't take that long, then tin foil might be the answer. To wrap your meat in or even to make a cup/frying pan if you have wire such as a coat hangar. Twigs can be used instead of wire of course thereby cutting out even more weight. However, the prime request was for lightweight meat cookery and foil is the answer.

Actually, part of the question asked:

"An obvious answer would be "light fire, appropriate stick, put food on stick, hold stick over fire" but the issue there is that fire building is time consuming and this is more for an adventure race type context..."

So the fire isn't the answer to the original question. I still think that Ti is the answer to lightweight and that gas is probably the most convenient it not the absolute lightest option, although it's not far off.

Martin