World population 7 billion

[Metal mug]

How long till the population is standing room only? On the plus side I'll be able to walk to londis on the top of other people's heads. Might give them whiplash though. :confused2:

[Bernie]

Were humans any other animal, we would have culled the species a long time ago. We don't seem to think we need to be controlled. Won't long before our natural resources suffer and there simply won't be enough food for everyone. Seems that's the only thing that'll restrict our endless population growth.

[Realearner]

Or nature will have it's own remedy by creating a virus or some form of catastrophe to cull the population.
But man will fight back as usual and call for monthly donations, sorry a bit of the cynic in me come out there :guns:

[rossbird]

Someone on the Radio yesterday, suggested we may have to limit family size.......Chinese option anyone???

Another interesting point is, some 'developed' countries will reduce their population. While other less developed countries will triple.

How that will impact on natural resourses along with the world economy is something I find interesting.

[rossbird]

The BBC are running a time clock, you enter your date of birth, out comes your population number.
I'm 2,610,777,872nd. I suddenly feel insignificant:confused:

[comanighttrain]

are people poor because they outbreed their resources or do people overbreed because of no resources?

[Realearner]

are people poor because they outbreed their resources or do people overbreed because of no resources?

Very deep very deep indeed :confused:

[rossbird]

are people poor because they outbreed their resources or do people overbreed because of no resources?

Not sure if the two collate. In areas of huge resourses,(oil, minerals etc) there are often extremely poor people.
With regards to overbreeding because of no resourses. Does that includes the ability to purchase birth control, the education needed to use it!

[Realearner]

One theory I have heard is that a large family equates to a good pension?
Over here I think it equates to less pension :D
But going on nature doing a natural cull, been slot of drought and famine in some areas, would give the land chance to regenerate.

[Metal mug]

What I find interesting is that up untill recently very few people have noticed this problem. It's an inconvenient truth.

[LandRoverMatt]

we need a solution
Maybe a law on the amount of children you should have ???????????:confused:

[Silverback]

we need a solution
Maybe a law on the amount of children you should have ???????????:confused:

Thing with laws is they have to be followed if not followed then they have to be enforced. I saw the same thing on telly recently where certain populations are dwindling whilst others are booming, i seem to have a recollection that our govt. about 20 years ago (maybe) was concerned about the UK birthrate and the demographic timebomb, basically they said we werent breeding fast enough and there would be a 'gap' in the young /old mix...go figure

[jus_young]

Obviously there have been a few films on the telly where future generations are limited on how many children they can have and sappers comment then comes into play about how you enforce this. Some countries populations are out of control and others are leveling off but looking at it from a doom and gloom angle - its not good and getting worse. I opted for two kids out of choice (two go and two replace) and made sure it didn't increase from there :shocked: but this was my choice.

As for nature taking its course, dodgy ground here :) Something will come along that will hit us bad and thats pretty certain but who knows when. It will probably be something we engineer ourselves anyway!

[CanadianMike]

Heard it's a kid in my city that broke the 7 billionth mark........................ Odd.....

[Martin]

Que sera sera

Martin

[Ashley Cawley]

Que sera seraTrue, true :)

If you consider just how much we have progressed technologically in the past 150 years it's insane - The rate of development in science/technology is exponential and it won't stop. I don't doubt in the likes of the next 150-300 years (if we make it that long) that space travel on a huge scale will be a viable option, in terms of looking for other inhabitable planets & teraforming etc. I know this sounds insane SiFi - but seriously you take an iPhone back in time just 80 years and show someone the Internet, Google-Earth or a 'Facetime' (video-call) with someone on the other side of the planet and this would be absolutely unbelievable SiFi stuff to them!

I find it quite ironic that we have SiFi films which show alien races invading Earth (often for it's resources) yet I think what is more likely going to happen is one day far off in the future we will infact be the alien race invading another planet to use it's resources as a last ditch attempt at survival, irrespect of the natives. :(

[Realearner]

Love your take on that Ash, and when you think that at the turn of the twentieth century they only just had cars!
And if any one can remember the first series of star trek, with the flip communicator device oh yes that's it a mobile phone ha ha.

[Reaps72]

Ash is right ! We will end up invading other planets because we have over used & abused this planet to the point of its impending doom!
That is exactly what has gone on since we first left Africa as homo sapiens! We have spread like cancer across the planet, wiping out creatures & consuming resources, with no predators to keep us in check, low & behold 7 billion & rising parasites sucking the life out of the earth.

At least when we used to live in relative harmony with our planet, nature had our population in check with what was available to sustain us!
Famines, draughts, storms, volcanic activity the whole plethora of natural disasters helped keep our numbers down & moving to allow areas to rest & recover from our use! Clearly the case when you look at hunter gatherer tribes & how they live & move through their territories seasonally & maintain a sustainable tribe size!

But with technology came the ability for us to control certain elements of nature, allowing us to become more stationary, allowing the population to boom!
I only hope that by the time we have to leave this world for others, that we have learned from the mistakes of our forefathers, & learn to live in harmony with our environments!

If Earth is to survive then this unsustainable population size needs a good old natural disaster or two, to cause a mass extinction or depopulation of its primary abuser!

But is it me or is the weather getting a bit weird over the past 30 years!

End of an Ice Age?
Entering an Ice Age?
Global Warming?
Tectonic Shifts?

Is it already in the post from mother nature?
The Earth has been around a lot longer than us & has wiped out previous custodians of its surface!

Are we reaping what has been sewn?

[Ashley Cawley]

Amazing isn't it?... We've been walking around this planet, surviving and thriving for what 6 or 7 million years now? And it seems like 95% of all the damage that has been done in the past 500 years. Incredible on a time scale.

You can look back to the root causes, but where do you stop? I mean arguably agriculture is to blame (don't get me wrong I understand and appreciate we depend on it to exist in this modern age now), but it was the main factor for us stopping, settling down and dreaming up other ideas like religion and other inventions!

A quote by Ray Mears that I found interesting...


"For 99.9% recurring of our history we were hunter-gathers. About 12,000 years ago we came up with this concept of farming, which in my eyes is still an experiment in food-gathering, because we've still got to prove we can do it without actually destroying our environment."

If you're interested in the lecture titled: "Survivors" that was given by Ray Mears at Liverpool University in 2009 you can watch the full lecture here: http://www.naturalbushcraft.co.uk/resources/ray-mears-free-webcast-lecture-on-survivors.html

[Ashley Cawley]

There's so, so much wrong with humanity. But I have faith (not in a religious sense) but in humanity.

In my opinion we need to educate our future generations to understand their relationship with everything in the world, lower our impact on it and learn to live in a less destructive and more sustainable fashion.

I see my whole life as a slow learning experience and move to the above mentioned - however ironically it's this man-made concept of stupid money-tokens that is my biggest restraint! If resources we're shared freely for the benefit of society I'd have a roof full of Photovoltaics, an underground water storage tank and a wood-burner in the front room. However I can't afford all these tools to utilise clean energy and lower my impact on the Earth.

[Roadkillphil]

For those interested, here is a link to a scientific paper that spells out the full impact of our population increase.

http://www.actionbioscience.org/newfrontiers/eldredge2.html

this planet is in the midst of a mass extinction, one of only 6 in the history of life on earth. The previous extinctions were caused by physical means, ie at the end of the cretacious period 65mya an asteroid collision wiped out the dinosaurs etc. This current mass extinction is the only one to be caused by a biological source. Us.

to any alien species out there looking at our planet we must seem to be a disease upon our world. A sad concept given the potential of homo sapien. We are capable wonderous dreams but we choose to be the nightmare to our ecosystem through unthinking greed.

I think now that only a system of intense loss, pain and hopelessness for ourselves as individuals and as a species is the only way our planet will be able to survive whilst still nuturing humanity. ie a mass cull and a reform of our viruslike nature to spread and overwhelm the earth.

If you look at the astronomical damage throughout the geological timescale that has been inflicted upon this planet, I do not believe humanity has the power to extinguish life entirely on earth. No matter how much damage we do, life will prevail, grow and bring forth new and wonderous species, hopefully more deserving of this astronmical wonder we call home amongst the stars.

Remember, there are a billion different reasons why a life sustaining planet should not exist amidst the hostile environment of the beautiful universe. We are incredibly lucky to be here and as a species we seem not to realise or be thankful of this fact.

apologies for the waffle!! :D

[Reaps72]

"however ironically it's this man-made concept of stupid money-tokens that is my biggest restraint! If resources we're shared freely for the benefit of society" Quote Ash

A very Gene Roddenberry utopia!

Space the final frontier, these are the voyages of......

[bigzee]

The BBC are running a time clock, you enter your date of birth, out comes your population number.
I'm 2,610,777,872nd. I suddenly feel insignificant:confused:
I am not a number...I AM A FREE MAN!......(snigger - yeah - right)

[bigzee]

....and another thing:
If you hold out both arms horizontally - to represent all time on planet earth (left fingertip the beginning of time and the right hand the present moment), then with one stroke of a nail file you could erase all human history. And like the man said, about 99% of that human history was spent in the stone age. Pyramids and PCs are all recent innovations.

[jus_young]

Jack, what have you started! Some very deep thoughts coming out on this one.

Having the pleasure of spending my life with two wonderful kids I live in hope that change will come sooner rather than later for their sake and the children to come. Hope comes from some of the questions and comments that come from my kids. They are more aware of what is happening in the world around them and this knowledge is not just coming from us as parents but also from listening and understanding the news stories, education from schools and their own enquiring minds and as long as these great kids are not in the minority there remains a future for all.

Ash - your wish list - this is where the mentality of people is changing. The technologies of the modern age allow us to utilise renewable resources which many 'anties' say are ineffective and just as damaging to the environment as what we are trying to replace, but don't we have to start somewhere? The process of burning wood is by no means a new thing but now can burn it more efficiently. Wind turbines are big and ugly but I would rather have one of these in my back yard than a nuclear power station, PV may not be very efficient and materials are shipped half way round the world and back again but it works. New methods for food production are developing rapidly that utilise less space but produce greater quantities. Who knows what the future will bring.

Not that we need to worry of course:

28 Days Later
I Am Legend
Day After Tomorrow
Armageddon
Soylent Green
Planet of the Apes
War of the Worlds
The Day the Earth Stood Still
The Core

And of course our favourite - 2012

[Silverback]

I think that as a species we are very arrogant to think that we can destroy the planet, life will find a way... It has in the past. The planet has bounced back and repopulated., adapted and evolved. We continue to evolve. We are just one species on a planet populated by millions, we only have to look at history to see what happens in an area over populated by a single species.Not forgetting of course that in the whole scheme of things the only reason we got to the top of the food chain is through our use of weapons, in certain environs we revert back to being prey and the status quo is returned.

Maybe thats whats happening now ? Some kind of natural selection that means those reliant on technology wont be able to survive the next calamity. Those that vegetate watching the x factor and believing the world owes you a living will fall foul of the failure of the technological revolution.

Anyone remember the chaos caused by the fuel crisis in the seventies ? Imagine if it happened now !!

[bigzee]

I think we're all over reacting to the population thing here. There are plenty of places in the world where humans are thin on the ground. I live in the second biggest county in England, but it has a population density less than the city of Nottingham.

The world has plenty of room for all of us, we just have to adapt and survive. The favelas of Brazil are a perfect example of people all huddling together in misery and squalor just to be in a city, when the greatest natural and bountiful wilderness is down the road. Kayapos and such like live there happily enough, and it just needs a change in attitude for humans to survive, and let's face it - we've made plenty of changes over the centuries.

[Roadkillphil]

Crowding is not the issue. The issue is the impact that 7 billion human beings and their industrial/agricultural habits are having on the planet. The other issue is the rate that this population is increasing. This planet is currently losing 3 species an hour due to habitat destruction to make way for farming and industry.
Imagine what the world will look like in 200 years when there are 14bn people, the whole planet is a farm and the only plants and animals left are what we cultivate on this farm.

Every attempt that nature has made to keep us in check has failed.
We have grown outside the natural balance of our ecosystem and become a major threat to all life.
Evolution by natural selection no longer applies on this planet. It has become evolution by human selection, and until we deal with the problem that we have become, ours and indeed the planets situation will only deteriorate

[Silverback]

I understand your thinking Phil and see how it could happen, I just think we are going to destroy ourselves before that happens, maybe not in my lifetime or my kids, but I truly believe that TEOTWAWKI is around the corner. Probably from techological reliance and when that infrastructure falls, we starve, or more than likely a bacteria or virus that we cant fix culls the population. In this case only the strong & knowledgeable will survive - natural selection as its meant to be.

The only problem is how much more damage are we going to do before it happens.........

[Metal mug]

I know this has been mentioned already but what is vital at the moment is to educate people not to be so selfish. Both as a means to raise awareness in how we treat the planet, and also just as common courtesy.

[Roadkillphil]

I understand your thinking Phil and see how it could happen, I just think we are going to destroy ourselves before that happens, maybe not in my lifetime or my kids, but I truly believe that TEOTWAWKI is around the corner. Probably from techological reliance and when that infrastructure falls, we starve, or more than likely a bacteria or virus that we cant fix culls the population. In this case only the strong & knowledgeable will survive - natural selection as its meant to be.

The only problem is how much more damage are we going to do before it happens.........

When we're gone the world will heal. It may take hundreds of thousands of years, but life has blossomed and flourished from next to nothing in previous mass extinctions. I don't believe we have the capacity to lay waste to all life on earth, whole ecosystems can bloom from a handful of microbes.

As for TEOTWAWKI, there be a strong chance it'll come to that before long and for the survivors the future looks real messy. After a period of murdering and pillaging any leftover supplies, what are the starving masses gonna turn to for food?? Messy business eh, more food for those colonial microbes....

[Roadkillphil]

On a more positive note..., Although I have been witness to the outcome of some of the worst of mankinds actions, I have also seen for myself the best of what we can be. And no matter what we do to the planet, or each other, there is hope for us still. Regardless of the other 7bn folks out there, I still find space enough to breath deep, open my eyes and stare in wonder at our home and it's denizens.
:D

[Metal mug]

On a more positive note..., Although I have been witness to the outcome of some of the worst of mankinds actions, I have also seen for myself the best of what we can be. And no matter what we do to the planet, or each other, there is hope for us still. Regardless of the other 7bn folks out there, I still find space enough to breath deep, open my eyes and stare in wonder at our home and it's denizens.
:D Well said.

[jus_young]

Waterworld is on telly, forgot that one :)

[Realearner]

I know this has been mentioned already but what is vital at the moment is to educate people not to be so selfish. Both as a means to raise awareness in how we treat the planet, and also just as common courtesy.
The trouble with the above is you need to educate the very small amount of people that pull the strings, I think it comes down to about 7 families that mainly control money and big business across the world.
Conspiracy theories or truths hidden either way unless the general masses think like people on this type of forum, change is unlikely unless something major happens to open their eyes.

[Silverback]

The problem you have is that some people believe that the X factor is the only way to true spiritual enlightenment and suffer separation anxiety when you take thier mobile away - you will never convince those people.
Common courtesy disappeared from the mainstream many moons ago. The selfless persuit of personal posessions, labels and tags - these days in general the more people I meet the more I love my dogs at least they are loyal, caring and sociable animals.

What happened to us ?................

[jus_young]

Found a couple of interesting, or is that scary, sites

http://www.breathingearth.net/

http://www.worldometers.info/

[Metal mug]

The problem you have is that some people believe that the X factor is the only way to true spiritual enlightenment and suffer separation anxiety when you take their mobile away Something that really got me yesterday was that on the news someone had sent in a mobile video of the accident on the M5. There were injured people flailing around on the ground but this person thought it better to film them than to help. Horrible. :(

[Silverback]

Something that really got me yesterday was that on the news someone had sent in a mobile video of the accident on the M5. There were injured people flailing around on the ground but this person thought it better to film them than to help. Horrible. :(

It is terrible that rather than reaching for a blanket or something else to help the first thought is to reach for the camera/phone

[jus_young]

I know what you mean on this one. A few years back I was first to arrive at an accident where a Transit had failed to stop at a junction and got hit side on by a lorry. I found the guy in the Transit dead, lorry driver in shock. Right mess with metal and fuel everywhere so I had the apprentice with me at the time and got him to go up the road to stop any traffic that came along whilst I used the van to stop it from the other direction. Even though it was blatently obvious what had happened the only thing we got from other car drivers was abuse because we blocked their way and would not let them through!

[Realearner]

I know what you mean on this one. A few years back I was first to arrive at an accident where a Transit had failed to stop at a junction and got hit side on by a lorry. I found the guy in the Transit dead, lorry driver in shock. Right mess with metal and fuel everywhere so I had the apprentice with me at the time and got him to go up the road to stop any traffic that came along whilst I used the van to stop it from the other direction. Even though it was blatently obvious what had happened the only thing we got from other car drivers was abuse because we blocked their way and would not let them through!

Got to agree there, few years back i came across a similar situation no deaths luckily however same as yourself, tried to assist and warn other drivers whilst helping the guys injured and the majority of motorists were more pissed that they had to slow down :mad2:

[Silverback]

Yup me too, been sworn at,shouted at, threatened with violence and one nutter drove his car at me this was all on the same job !!

[Realearner]

Maybe the increase in population decreases the intelligence levels :confused:

[Metal mug]

Maybe the increase in population decreases the intelligence levels :confused:There's a question for New scientist. :)

[bigzee]

Maybe the increase in population decreases the intelligence levels :confused:
The increase in car numbers (and their comfort levels) causes a decrease in empathy levels. We don't behave like this on foot walking through a town.

[Adam Savage]

This conversation is intriguing :confused: not sure whether I have any thoughts on the matter, or if they should be voiced, but it's interesting to follow :)