Batonning

[treefrog]

Batonning: splitting a piece of wood with a knife by hitting the back of the knife with a stick, right?
There's a lot of bushcraft folk doing this, but I gotta ask...why? As far as I'm concerned, any piece of wood splittable
with a knife, I don't want to be bothered splitting it. Campfire wood? Well, anything under six inch diameter just goes
right on the fire unsplit and anything bigger needs an axe. So I'm guessing there are carving and whittling handicrafts
that might need this process? I know this is going to turn out to be a dumb question and I'll stand chastened and
rebuked, but please fill me in on what I'm missing.

Jack

[bushcraftboy]

I use my knife to baton sticks into kindling, because I don't have an axe, mainly you see reviews on knifes and they include batonning this is because say you were in a survival situation you most likely wouldn't have an axe at hand, so a good knife can chop wood and stuff.

[RobbC]

Well if the wood is wet on the outside you may have to split it to access the dry insides, and if you dont have an axe with you may have to use your knife :)

Robb

[CanadianMike]

What they said. And isn't just about splitting wood, you can baton across the grain as well to remove a branch from a tree or cut down a small tree. I typically baton to split wood, and to render kindling then shavings from it to start my fire. Basically using full or half logs for everything.

[garethw]

Ok, if I can take and axe then I avoid batoning. BUT, if you are out and don't want the weight of an axe...and kindling is hard to find then batoning with a knife can either get you dry wood, fine enough to burn... or give you dry interior wood you can featherstick to burn more easily. Its all about firestarting. In damp conditions good tinder and kindling I've found are the hardest bits to get.
Wood of 6 inches when its wet, may burn on a good fire, but won't start one....

I think the best advce I got was to always think of your next fire... If I can get dry tinder & kindling, I save some for the next time.

Batoning is just one technique... worth knowing.

cheers
Gareth

[treefrog]

Okay I guess it may come down to firewood availability. On portaging trips I never take an axe because of weight, but I can
always seem to find dry firewood without tools even in wet conditions, especially in conifer bush; snapping dead branches off trees, etc.
Never used a featherstick, either. I just squirrel away loads os birch bark whenever I see some. Note to self, must learn
featherstick technique...maybe then I wouldn't have to haul a 5 gallon can of diesel fuel everywhere....relax, I'm just kidding...

So thanks everyone for setting me straight on that.

Jack

[CanadianMike]

Some great benefits of batonning to split logs into various sizes of fuel over using an axe, is it's much safer, more accurate, and something you can do sitting around the campfire with buddies, prepping kindling for the next day's fire. No chance of knocking the head off, wood sections flying, overall it's safer to others as well as yourself. Such, an axe is needed to split logs with knots or intertwined grain, but just leave those aside to burn as they are, and choose straight grained wood to split with the knife. And the nature of knife bevels, the edge only bites into the wood at first, once the wood reaches the shoulder of the bevel, the edge is no longer in contact with most of the wood, so your edge retention will last a long time when batonning as the sides of the blade will split the wood. Works like a charm!

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/283510_10150276409634207_510619206_7404271_2751902 _n.jpg

If you get stuck, a wooden wedge takes over (make in advance).

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/184130_10150276409969207_510619206_7404272_728420_ n.jpg

After a dozen or so logs I split into smaller pieces and kindling, my knife was still very sharp.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/251572_10150276950739207_510619206_7408567_1199943 _n.jpg

[garethw]

I use lots of birch bark too...
Its all about surface area for starting a fire... feather sticks increase the area that can catch..
Evey little helps, a few pieces of birch bark, some dry spruce twigs and some split branches for kindling and with a little work you've the makings of a fire.
I usually carry some cotton wool balls in vaseline as an accelerant....
While I admire all the friction fire techniques, and I would certainly try to learn these,.. when I'm out in the woods I want fire as quickly as possible.
Chopping wood is about as far as I want to go...
If I put a piece of cotton wool on a few sheets of birch bark with a hand ful iof pine twigs, I know it will burn fast. I can then add my fuel wood...
I've never had a problem with ths technique all summer...
cheers
Gareth

[CanadianMike]

Don't forget pine cones, they catch fire fast and burn with a nice intensity........... and smell!

[WombleWill]

Might have to try batonning this weekend ;D Is it vital to have a sharp knife ???

Will.

[CanadianMike]

For splitting, a sharp edge isn't really needed, but for cross cutting, a sharp edge will make it a lot easier.

[Al21]

It's not just about starting your fire, if you use a small stove, Honey, Nibble Will or similar then your six inch log just ain't gonna fit! I'll also baton logs to a smaller size near the end of the fires life to ensure a swift complete burn of any larger logs in the fire to avoid charcoal covered logs which are hard to deal with when leaving no trace.

Al

[treefrog]

It's not just about starting your fire, if you use a small stove, Honey, Nibble Will or similar then your six inch log just ain't gonna fit! I'll also baton logs to a smaller size near the end of the fires life to ensure a swift complete burn of any larger logs in the fire to avoid charcoal covered logs which are hard to deal with when leaving no trace.

Al

Good point. I tend to make the type of campfire you can see from outer space.

[bushcraftboy]

I rarely use my Clipper 840 to chop wood because the blade bends. So I might buy a Mora triflex.

[markal17]

i got this knife from crazysaint to chop wood http://www.naturalbushcraft.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3012&d=1322868740 it can allso do loads of things round the camp great bit of kit for the money the kneck knife is good for any little stuff i might need to do

[RobbC]

i got this knife from crazysaint to chop wood http://www.naturalbushcraft.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3012&d=1322868740 it can allso do loads of things round the camp great bit of kit for the money the kneck knife is good for any little stuff i might need to do

Only guessin here Mark, but i think you are quite happy with your 2 new knives :p

Robb

[markal17]

well there ok lol you bet iv spent loads on diffrent knifes off the net one of the knifes broke the first time i used it these do all i want and more hope to get the other knife crazy is going to make its the middle size to my others lol

[bikebum1975]

I rarely use my Clipper 840 to chop wood because the blade bends. So I might buy a Mora triflex.


It's a surprisingly stout little blade I use my 840 regularly to baton a piece of wood though for me not for firewood for shaping wood and for squaring it up. Works real well because of the thin blade can't do the square up so easy with an axe less chance of a split going the wrong way for me. Don't get me wrong full on fire making an axe or hatchet would be with me

[andy202wr]

I always batton for the first lighting of a fire, after the kinderling is lit the battoning will get a good fire going. If you feather some and keep them dry, you can use them in the morning in the embers of the nights fire.

[LSKnives]

Batoning is very usefull. Although so is a folding saw and a small axe. I think it gets a bad wrap from certain Youtubers who carry 12" blades and a can of WD40 into the bush everywere they go. Without mentioning any names.

You know Canadian Mike thats the first time Ive ever seen someone mention using a wedge while batoning. Its something Ive though about but never tried.

[CanadianMike]

When one gets a knife blade wedged into a log, a wedge suddenly becomes a requirement. Lol, but it is helpful on hard knotty wood.

[LSKnives]

I suppose if you had a small knife you could just start the split with your knife, tap the wedge in and then pound it with an improvised maul to split it. Maybe save beating up your knife so much.

[CanadianMike]

Yup, that you can do as well. Of course with my knives, I don't have a problem with pounding on them, even on the tip (needed to with that picture I posted above due to log thickness).

[LSKnives]

It always worries me that metal fatigue and stress will build up unnoticed and break at a really unconvenient time. Probably just me. Could and should are two different things.

[CanadianMike]

True enough, and it all depends on the style of knife, construction, etc. With mine, I trust them to be very rugged, just because I try to be consistant with them and know what various clients have done with them (such as throwing at wood piles trying to dull the edge or test the point!?!?), plus the fact I always harden handle first til around critical then flip around and do the blade. The handle cools to a point during the heating of the blade, and is the last thing to get quenched after a few cycles of dips in the oil, so the handles themselves end up very tough without being brittle.

Since you focus mostly on stick tang knives (do you make the blades as well, or buy them pre-made?), I can totally see why you worry, as you should.

[LSKnives]

I do entirely stick tang knives. I used to make my own blades but latey Ive just been buying blanks. With family and work obligations time seems to be at a premium lately. Batoning and full tang knives always seems to make for a heated debate. My personal knives are lauri blanks shortened to half tang. Ive beaten them up for years, hit them with hammers, cut steel strapping and pounded them through braided steel cable. Dug in dirt filled with rocks. Ive never had one break or even chip. But if they did break it wouldnt ruin my day.

I just liked your idea of pounding on a wedge. Whats the enjoyment of beating up a knife if you dont have to? Not to mention a wedge would be a lot easier.

[LSKnives]

Different strokes for different folks.

[Tony1948]

IT helps:rolleye:

[CanadianMike]

Good to know, I've only made two stick tang blades, one was just the blade itself and sent off to the new owner, the other was stacked with handle by me, royal pain in the butt (especially the brass ends), the guy wanted it done so I took it as a learning experience (I charged way too little!!! Only $75 as I was trying to sell just the blade for $60, he asked if I could put a handle on it for another $15, I was dumb enough to say ok....... but since he's a cheap a** pain in the butt buddy of mine, I sent it without a sheath. Hey, he didn't ask for one, so I didn't make one! Lol)

But ya, I agree, wedge is much easier to deal with to help split rather than relying on just the knife. Two years ago I split an ash log, about 5ft long, 8" to 10" thick, using just my GB small forest axe and a pair of wood wedges (walked them along the length by leap frogging), worked like a charm. Besides, wedges are thicker than any knife, so splitting is a LOT easier!