Trying to make sence of courses and qualifications

[ianh]

As a begginer to bushcraft, i have been looking around at all the different courses.That are run in different parts of the country, or even the world .There are very basic courses ,wright up to get this qualification and become a fully qualified instructor.I can see that it makes sence to go and learn off of someone who has the expertease to teach.But where do you start, are there qualifications for instructors? .Would you be better learning, off of someone who has no qualifications, but 10-15 years of experience?.Is the best way to learn just to get out as much as you can and learn, from you own experience?.

[Ben Casey]

Hi I would start with something like have you done anything like this before (for example camping, Army cadets). Then see what basic knowledge you have and how you can use it for what you want to do. A forum like this one is good as it gives you an insight into all the differing aspects of the way. The I would chat to the lads and lasses get to know a few. Also when a meet is organised see about going along bit I would let everyone know your new to bushcraft. After reading up you could decide whether you would want to make it an overnighter.

But if I was you I would go for a days meeting first and take all my kit no one would mind having a look and saying if you might need something or even showing you there kit (Well I would not and Im sure the guys in here are the same.

Then from there decide if you want or need any courses because in the end it all depands on where you want to go and what you want to do.

I hope this helps but the others will all have there own thoughts so lets see what they think :)

Ben

[Silverback]

As far as Im concerned there are instructors in 2 groups.

Ex Mil (and that ilk) Survival Instructors who will teach you to live on your wits, find food and effect self rescue, escape and evade and return home.

Then there are those who teach native skills, first nations skills / living, traditional back to nature living in the outdoors and enjoying it, not just 'surviving'.

In my very humble opinion both need to be QBE ... qualified by experience. To me thats more important than certificates. In my time I have met many many people who have the badge, done the course...but cannot back it up with the requisite experience.

There is a wealth of knowledge on this forum and it comes in the heads of people who have the time, the skill, the experience and the inclination to teach. Learn from them

[Shewie]

The NCFE course run by John Rhyder at Woodcraft School (http://woodcraft-school.co.uk/index.htm) is one possibility for somebody looking to get a qualification, to be honest though 90% of the schools would prefer knowledge from experience rather than a piece of paper. If you want to get on a course to learn some skills then it's probably going to come down to cost, the better the school the higher the prices normally.

A few I can recommend ..

Woodlore (http://www.raymears.com/Bushcraft_Courses/)
Woodsmoke (http://www.woodsmoke.uk.com/p/v/courses/)
Backwoods Survival (http://www.backwoodsurvival.co.uk/courses.htm)

[jus_young]

I did a course once and it was enjoyable in most ways but I can't really say that I 'learnt' much. Most of the stuff covered really was common sense things and bits that you could teach yourself with a few days in the woods. The qualifications require a lot of work and only really mean something if you intend to use it such as Scouts etc and you don't need it then anyway. To instruct in Bushcraft/survival schools experience is the best thing with enthusiasm thrown in as well. You really are better off attending meets and when you have some idea of what you want then you can make some informed decisions about the type of courses you want to do and you would be suprised what you can learn for free.

[AdrianRose]

I'm probably gonna rock the boat here but I'm afraid that I just don't believe in paid for courses.

All of the courses that I've seen advertised and know folk that have been on over the years seem to be a waste of money in my opinion. They tend to concentrate on the trinity of bushcraft - 1. How to start a fire. 2. How to build a shelter. 3. How to cook your food.

I'll be honest, all of the above are something that is better learnt through practice and learning for free off your fellow bushcrafters at meet ups and communal camps etc.

I know a certain company who are advertising a "Diploma in Bushcraft", but let's be fair, it doesn't mean bugger all. A Diploma in Bushcraft is a "non-qualification", it isn't recognised as a qualification and is nothing more than a certificate knocked up on a pc.

My advice, for what it's worth, stick to practicing and meeting like minded people who have some knowledge in each topic and share/learn for free.

Sorry if I have offended any instructors/teachers/bushcraft company owners etc.

Ade.

[Ben Casey]

Hi Ade I dont think you can upset anyone with what you say as I think 99% of us think the same :) I think though something like the DofE what can be done in schools or cadets tho is a good way of getting some basics (Depending of course on how far you go in it). It is also recognised towards the school qualifications that the kids do now a days. It isnt a big company ripping people off and I learnt a lot back in the 70's from it :)

[Silverback]

Ade you get a second vote from me too, well said

[Shewie]

There's much more specialised courses than the weekend introductory stuff so they shouldn't be dismissed. I've spent a week learning how to track which wouldn't have been possible in a couple of days, a week living on the coast was also one of the most useful courses I've ever done.

There is always the chance that you'll meet someone at a gathering who can share some skills and that's great, but if you really want to concentrate on something specific then a dedicated course can be really beneficial.

[Ben Casey]

Cool but who gives the guys that instruct the initial qualification to be instructors?

I mean have they studied teaching in uni or a college and who gave them the qual as a tracker or so. As far as I can tell it is an unregulated pass time that isnt recognised by any official bodies so I could even set myself up and call myself an instructor if I wanted to. And I have meet more nice guys at a weekend meet that only cost me a couple of quid where theey have given me so many tips so like I say I think something like the DofE has more to offer in this aspect as the instructors are qualified by official bodies and have to go by guide lines.

Ben

[Fletching]

Experience is definitely the key but I would add that you can get a few very, very useful steps on the ladder by getting some professional training in first aid, navigation and basic meteorology.

As for fire, foraging, hunting etc., speak directly to the people who do these things at meet-ups and at sites like NB. That's what we're all doing here - asking for and giving advice, sharing ideas etc.

Steve :)

[AdrianRose]

Experience is definitely the key but I would add that you can get a few very, very useful steps on the ladder by getting some professional training in first aid, navigation and basic meteorology.

As for fire, foraging, hunting etc., speak directly to the people who do these things at meet-ups and at sites like NB. That's what we're all doing here - asking for and giving advice, sharing ideas etc.

Steve :)

My point exactly Steve. I have never been on a paid for/organised course in my life but I am more than capable of lighting a fire without any hassle, I can identify approx 2500 different fungi/edible wild plants/medicinal plants, i know every tree in Britain, I know a dozen different knots, I can trap and skin a rabbit and even carve a spoon!

And all I this has been learnt through either studying the subject matter or talking to cleverer folk than me who I have met along the path and on excellent "free to share" forums like this one.

Don't mean to sound big headed but the point I'm trying to make is that there is a lot of knowledge, especially on forums like this one that can/should be shared freely at meet-ups, weekenders and gatherings etc.

Also, as far as I am aware from a few articles that I have read, there is no government recognised qualification specifically on Bushcraft. There are a number of "organisational" ones such as the scouts, DoE, numerous private companies etc. but these are not "official" qualifications as such.

Again, I agree with Steve, Health and safety, first aid qualifications are a great starting point.

Ade.

[GwersyllaCnau]

Hi Ade I dont think you can upset anyone with what you say as I think 99% of us think the same :) I think though something like the DofE what can be done in schools or cadets tho is a good way of getting some basics (Depending of course on how far you go in it). It is also recognised towards the school qualifications that the kids do now a days. It isnt a big company ripping people off and I learnt a lot back in the 70's from it :)


I'm probably gonna rock the boat here but I'm afraid that I just don't believe in paid for courses.

All of the courses that I've seen advertised and know folk that have been on over the years seem to be a waste of money in my opinion. They tend to concentrate on the trinity of bushcraft - 1. How to start a fire. 2. How to build a shelter. 3. How to cook your food.

I'll be honest, all of the above are something that is better learnt through practice and learning for free off your fellow bushcrafters at meet ups and communal camps etc.

I know a certain company who are advertising a "Diploma in Bushcraft", but let's be fair, it doesn't mean bugger all. A Diploma in Bushcraft is a "non-qualification", it isn't recognised as a qualification and is nothing more than a certificate knocked up on a pc.

My advice, for what it's worth, stick to practicing and meeting like minded people who have some knowledge in each topic and share/learn for free.

Sorry if I have offended any instructors/teachers/bushcraft company owners etc.

Ade.

I agree with both these quotes though I did the DofE in early '80's (sorry Ben lol).

[tadpole]

You can spend £200 on a weekend course, at any number of Bushcraft Schools, and learn a bit about the trinity of Bushcraft, (fire shelter food) or hang about the (this) forums, for a month or so, and go to a local to you meet, and learn just as much if not more from people who (for the most part) will share and show, and help you for pretty much free. I cannot tell you just how helpful most 'crafters are, when it comes to explaining and showing people how to do something, not just once but dozens of time until you can do it yourself. Once you know the basics you can practice in your garden, on the beach, even in a layby (if you don't have a garden). Once you've got the basics down, you can think about more worthwhile courses, and training.
you can't become a rally driver, until you know how to drive.... or can you?

[Shewie]

Cool but who gives the guys that instruct the initial qualification to be instructors?



No qualification just experience, it's the weekend warriors with no experience that decide to setup a bushy school that worry me. If the instructors have genuine experience and not just sat on a course for 12 months then I'm all for it, not just some fantasy they play at during the weekend. As an example the tracking course was run by a guy who's been on the SAS selection team for 20+ years, was one of RM's original instructors at Woodlore, is currently working with Mr Grylls and various other TV productions and has instructed in every type of terrain on the planet, you don't get the chance to learn from somebody like that very often.

I don't really do meets, I'd rather be out exploring new places with a couple of pals. As for bushcraft qualifications, I don't agree with that either, what I do respect though is somebody's experience in the field and the fact that they are willing to pass that knowledge on.

Experience, experience, experience

[Silverback]

Experience, experience, experience

Nail + Hammer = head total agreement

Bit like the First Aid instructor who has done the course but never done first aid (they exist!) versus the Paramedic/EMT ex Mil medic et al who teaches First Aid....

AHEM........By the way if anyone wants any First Aid training specific to an outdoor/mountain environment.... ;) ;)

[luresalive]

No qualification just experience, it's the weekend warriors with no experience that decide to setup a bushy school that worry me. If the instructors have genuine experience and not just sat on a course for 12 months then I'm all for it, not just some fantasy they play at during the weekend. As an example the tracking course was run by a guy who's been on the SAS selection team for 20+ years, was one of RM's original instructors at Woodlore, is currently working with Mr Grylls and various other TV productions and has instructed in every type of terrain on the planet, you don't get the chance to learn from somebody like that very often.

I don't really do meets, I'd rather be out exploring new places with a couple of pals. As for bushcraft qualifications, I don't agree with that either, what I do respect though is somebody's experience in the field and the fact that they are willing to pass that knowledge on.

Experience, experience, experience

I agree completely, but you'd be surprised by how many "schools" are set up by just such people who market themselves as the best or "foremost", yet have done virtually nothing that could give them their basis as an instructor, neither have they travelled, or practised in different environments but mearly done a bushcraft course once and therefore now think they know it all! (and they charge exhorbitant prices too!!!!!)

[Ben Casey]

I agree with both these quotes though I did the DofE in early '80's (sorry Ben lol).

I feel old now LOL Mind you I joined the Army when we had 2439 at the start of our number so there has to be someone on here with a lower number than me :D

[Ben Casey]

No qualification just experience, it's the weekend warriors with no experience that decide to setup a bushy school that worry me. If the instructors have genuine experience and not just sat on a course for 12 months then I'm all for it, not just some fantasy they play at during the weekend. As an example the tracking course was run by a guy who's been on the SAS selection team for 20+ years, was one of RM's original instructors at Woodlore, is currently working with Mr Grylls and various other TV productions and has instructed in every type of terrain on the planet, you don't get the chance to learn from somebody like that very often.
I don't really do meets, I'd rather be out exploring new places with a couple of pals. As for bushcraft qualifications, I don't agree with that either, what I do respect though is somebody's experience in the field and the fact that they are willing to pass that knowledge on.
Experience, experience, experience

I agree with you mate I would not argue with anyone who has done time with the SAS or RM as in my head they have some of the best ways in the world :D I drove the boss of the SAS once (General Sir Peter Edgar de la Cour de la Billière) and nearly pooped my pants when he was in the rover with me. First time I have stuttered in my whole life :D
But as stated by others there are people out there who havent got a clue and not all military service means you can teach bushcraft I served 17 years in there and I still have a lot to learn about bushcraft :)

[Realearner]

So i have to agree with all the sentiments here. I have not been in the military and the only courses I have done have been for flint knapping, with the Lords so lots of experience there, and one other as a present which i enjoyed but wont mention here. But both were one day jobs and in the woods so great.
But to return to the subject I have learnt so much useful stuff from this site alone that if I had paid for that it would have cost a fair bit of hard earned cash. And from this site I have surfed you tube and other sites and the knowledge is out there. But meeting and talking with others is also a great way to learn and have fun, at no major cost.
Well I think I have covered all I wanted to say, apart from whatever you do enjoy it ;)

[ianh]

thanks for all the advices, i am going to have to go with the fact that you cant beat experance. which to be honest, was the answer i was half expecting. it does tend to be that way with most things in life. so i guess i best start getting out, and trying a few of the things ,i have been reading up on. even if i do start in the garden and just the odd day out for now, and leave the overnighters till the weather breaks.

[udamiano]

Cool but who gives the guys that instruct the initial qualification to be instructors?

I mean have they studied teaching in uni or a college and who gave them the qual as a tracker or so. As far as I can tell it is an unregulated pass time that isnt recognised by any official bodies so I could even set myself up and call myself an instructor if I wanted to. And I have meet more nice guys at a weekend meet that only cost me a couple of quid where theey have given me so many tips so like I say I think something like the DofE has more to offer in this aspect as the instructors are qualified by official bodies and have to go by guide lines.

Ben

Some do, some don't. I'm afraid.

I hold a degree in Education from University of Warwick.
And myself and my instructors all registered with the 'Institute for Learning' ( that's the government one required by the regulations, and not a paid boys club)
Most of the good schools have instructors with similar or equal equals, there is no problem in asking any school if their instructors hold formal teaching qualifications.
Hope that answer your question.

[Silverback]

I feel old now LOL Mind you I joined the Army when we had 2439 at the start of our number so there has to be someone on here with a lower number than me :D


How long was the Berlin wall mate ;-)

[Ben Casey]

How long was the Berlin wall mate ;-)

It was long :D

[Marvell]

As far as Im concerned there are instructors in 2 groups.

Ex Mil (and that ilk) Survival Instructors who will teach you to live on your wits, find food and effect self rescue, escape and evade and return home.

Then there are those who teach native skills, first nations skills / living, traditional back to nature living in the outdoors and enjoying it, not just 'surviving'.


Ha ha, I'm neither. I'm practised, researched, taught by bushcrafters, trained by ex-mil and practised some more.


In my very humble opinion both need to be QBE ... qualified by experience. To me thats more important than certificates. In my time I have met many many people who have the badge, done the course...but cannot back it up with the requisite experience.

I could not agree more. I don't feel comfortable teaching things I don't know I can do myself.


There is a wealth of knowledge on this forum and it comes in the heads of people who have the time, the skill, the experience and the inclination to teach. Learn from them

Beware the armchair expert :)

[Marvell]

My advice, for what it's worth, stick to practicing and meeting like minded people who have some knowledge in each topic and share/learn for free.

Sorry if I have offended any instructors/teachers/bushcraft company owners etc.

Well I don't feel offended, since my experience with bushcraft meets is that the knowledge and skill just flows, but watch out for it being a bit samey sometimes. There's nothing like a well rounded survival course that covers all the angles, even briefly, to get the full picture and a new list of things to practice and ask about at the next bushcraft meet.

Having said that, those who have been out with me know that I'm happy to "go all survival on your ass" at bushcraft meets and get some of those extra bits in place. I'm giving a talk at the RV this year, bit I don't know what on yet :)

[Marvell]

Cool but who gives the guys that instruct the initial qualification to be instructors?

I my case, it was experience which led to internship, which led to be an assistant instructor then full instructor.

[Marvell]

I agree completely, but you'd be surprised by how many "schools" are set up by just such people who market themselves as the best or "foremost", yet have done virtually nothing that could give them their basis as an instructor, neither have they travelled, or practised in different environments but mearly done a bushcraft course once and therefore now think they know it all! (and they charge exhorbitant prices too!!!!!)

I kid you not, I had a guy come on a five day course I ran (in Spring) and set up his own school that summer. He even used the photos from my course in his marketing.