BCB Military Survival Tin Review

[BushcraftAndSurvival]

Since Lofty Wiseman's SAS survival guide popularised the Survival Tin there have been many pre-packaged variants on the market of varying usefulness and quality.

I was given a BCB survival tin a while back and now that i have had time to look at it i can review it here for you.

http://bushcraftandsurvival.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/P1030849-1024x576.jpg

BCB are a company based in South Wales who for some years have been designing and developing military and outdoors equipment. I am not sure if these survival tins are issued or not.

The tin is supplied in a heavy duty, water proof sealed bag, presumably for storage. Unfortunately the bag is not resealable, once opened, it is opened forever. Inside the outer packaging is a metal tin, the tin is sealed with a length of vinyl electrical insulation tape which can be used for other things, however it's primary function is to seal the tin and shouldn't be considered as an item within the tin as BCB suggest.

http://bushcraftandsurvival.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/P1030851-1024x576.jpg

Also included are some instructions on how to survive, which initially raised a smile but once i read them i was surprised that they are actually quite useful. If somebody with very little experience needed some information, they have managed to pack quite a lot of useful information on the fundamentals of survival on a two sides of A4 paper. The paper itself can also be used as tinder.

Once the tin is opened you can see that BCB have managed to pack quite a lot into it. Learn from my mistake and make a mental note of the order in which the items are packed. I have yet to be able to close the lid on the tin since the day I opened it.

http://bushcraftandsurvival.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/P1030856-1024x576.jpg

If you think that you might need a survival tin one day and that is why you carry it, you should absolutely open it and be familiar with it's contents before you come to depend on them. You should know that each and every item in there is up to spec and in good condition. This is the problem I have with it arriving in a sealed bag and a suggestion that you should not open it until needed.

When I laid out all of the items I first went for the knife, a very small folding lock knife and found that the blade had no edge on it, literally no edge, just a flat section of steel. Utterly useless. Luckily for the would be survivor, there are two razor blades within which will be a lot more useful than the knife. The knife is so short anyway I am not sure what you would use it for. I thought perhaps it would be useful for game preparation but not until it is sharpened. Unsurprisingly there is no sharpening stone in the kit.

The following items are in the kit

• Water resistant tin
• Vinyl tape
• Button compass
• Knife
• Matches
• Pencil
• Purification tablets
• Snare wire
• Candle
• Fireball Flint & striker
• Fishing kit
• Whistle
• Sewing kit
• Safety pins
• Wire saw
• Survival instructions
• Condoms
• Plasters

Add to that the plastic bag that it came in which is good enough to be used as a water container which you could use to collect water or drink from

The compass is a welcome addition which in the right hands can help shine a light on your whereabouts and help lay the foundations of a self rescue plan if necessary, the knife, well we covered that earlier on, it needs sharpening before it is of any use. The matches are the same ones supplied in British Army Ration Packs, wind proof and there are plenty of them. You have about 20 fires worth there so that's covered. Also you have a small tea light candle which is an invaluable item when lighting a fire under tough conditions. You can light the candle easily enough with the matches or even the supplied fire starter (sparker) and then use the candle to light the tinder and kindling. The candle could also be used for light but I would try to save it only for fire lighting. This is straight from the SAS survival guide - whenever you create a flame, light a candle.

You have a pencil in there,which can be used to make notes, journal, leave messages etc... It's something to do to keep your mind occupied and help with the boredom. Some people find that writing lists helps them to organise themselves.

The water purification tables will be helpful, you have 10 of those, each one capable of purifying 1 Lt of water. Also in the tin are two condoms, which are there to be used as water carriers. Unsupported these are prone to splitting, a condom full of water is heavy and difficult to manage. By wrapping the water filled condom in some cloth, a T-shirt for example, you greatly improve the chances of being able to reuse this item.

You have some snare wire, about 3 snares worth but no cordage to attach the snares too, you'll have to improvise that from something else. There are no instructions for how to make the snares and how to place them so that is another reason why you should open and check the contents of the tin when you don't actually need to depend on it.

Next is an old style fireball flint and striker, this is not as good as a standard ferrocerium rod as it is a much smaller amount of metal mounted onto a steel surface. It wont last very long if you use it a lot. It will produce a fire though so you have that to use when your matches run out. I would replace this item with a ferrocerium rod though which will last a lot longer.

The fishing kit is pretty good, a nice selection of hooks, shot and swivels with some decent line should make fishing perfectly possible.

The whistle is a good one although it is quite large and takes up a lot of room in the tin. There are smaller whistles to be had and this one seems like a waste of space. You could have had a whistle half the size and used that extra space to put a better knife in the tin.

Razor blades, two of these, countless uses and you have a sewing kit for repairing clothing which is very important plus a few safety pins.

Lastly we have a wire saw. Wire saws are very difficult and energy expensive to use. They get caught up in the wood frequently and are nowhere near as good as a tradition saw. You can improve the wire saw by converting it into a bow saw like this

http://bushcraftandsurvival.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/P1030950-1024x576.jpg

Then it is much easier to use and far less tiring and you will actually make some progress through what you are sawing.

And let us not forget the tin itself which has many uses. The tin can be used to boil water in, to make charred cloth, to cook in, it has a shiny surface to use as a signal mirror and if the worst came to the worst, you could use it as material to make spear and arrow heads from.

The moral of this story is that you must be familiar with every item in your survival kit, there are a few items in here that i would replace and i can think of some things that i would add to it. Rather than a small ball of cotton wool which at best, will give you a few seconds to get a fire going, i would place a few splinters of fat wood in there which take up less space and last a lot longer. They can be ignited just as easily from the sparker and burn very slowly.

The BCB survival kit certainly has it's limitations and in my opinion the inclusion of a blunt knife is irresponsible but if you had nothing else, then it could save your life.

In this tin you have the means to cover off all your survival needs, Fire, Shelter, Food and Water.

When compared with other off the shelf kits i have to say that this is quite good, it is far better than the Webtex version although that has a much better (and sharp) knife.

You should not depend on your survival kit, by carrying a decent fixed blade knife, fire steel and folding saw then you greatly enhance your probability of surviving and perhaps thriving since the inclusion of snare wire and a fishing kit provides you with a fighting chance of acquiring some food if you know how to use them. In a Bushcraft Survival situation then this tin is less valuable than some good knowledge and training that you can acquire from attending a Bushcraft course but can compliment those when used correctly.

**Lastly, i have still not worked out what the U shaped / bracket piece of metal is for,if you know then please leave a comment, i would be interested to find out what it is.

I recommend this survival tin for tucking away in your rucksack when travelling through remote wilderness areas, it weights just 195g so will not add much of a weight penalty.

Some technical information

• Weight: 195g (6.87oz)
• Size: 11 x 8 x 2.8cm (4.5” x 3" x 1”)

Matt @ http://BushcraftandSurvival.com

Boot Notes
** The consensus of opinion is that the U shaped bracket is actually a handle that you can attach to the tin to hold it over a fire

[Silverback]

Lastly, i have still not worked out what the U shaped / bracket piece of metal is for,if you know then please leave a comment, i would be interested to find out what it is.

suspending the tin over a fire - or a crusader mug for that matter

[BushcraftAndSurvival]

Thanks Sapper, Now we know!

[Primerib]

Very detailed review and a lot of good thoughts! Thank you!

[AdrianRose]

Sorry mate but whilst it's a good review. I just don't get the need for a survival tin.

I have been doing bushcraft for more than half my life in 6 different countries in a myriad of environments and have never had need of a "survival" tin. I know that by definition one would never hopefully have to use a survival tin, but I cannot think of a single situation in the British isles where one would need it over and above the kit that one should already be taking if you are to enter the environment where a survival tin would be carried as a back up.
By definition, survival is a situation that you find yourself in when a situation has failed or gone wrong or when the unexpected has happened when you have gone for a walk "off grid", therefore if you are going off grid you would be wildly irresponsible not to carry, at the very least, a back pack with a few essentials in and some form cutting tool and fire lighting equipment fixed to your person.

I think that a lot of the stuff in these tins is useless to say the least, a wire saw being high on this list, not to mention the ubiquitous blunt/weak folding knife.

Whilst there is a Tesco's and Macdonalds in every postal code in Britain is there a need for a survival tin.

Ade.

[Martin]

The thing is, Ade has hit the nail on the head as far as I'm concerned here. Having said that, there are loads of people who get a kick out of putting together these sorts of tins or various boxes of kit. I say, if it floats your boat then go for it but as for buying a ready made survival tin, it's just not for me thanks.

"I'm out."

Martin

[BushcraftAndSurvival]

Hello Adrian, This survival tin comes from a Military heritage. In particular, if I recall correctly, they were developed with Aircrew in mind. A Pilot runs the risk of being shot down or stranded in a remote location and only has a limited amount of space available so cannot go fully equipped with survival gear. The idea was to increase his chances of survival so that when help came, he was still alive when it got there.

Since then, Lofy Wiseman began to encourage the use of these in remote wilderness area's should you find yourself in an actual survival situation then it is unlikely that there will be a Tesco around the corner as you rightly say.

I agree with what you say and in the review I did say that I recommend this for travelling in remote wilderness areas. The tools contained within this tin are indeed no substitute for a fixed blade knife, folding saw and a fire steel.

To add to what you say, There are still area's in the UK where you are still very far from help. For example, Galloway Forest park is over 300 square miles of pine forest and you can be ten miles or more from the nearest road. A fact that I discovered last week as I was there at night on my own "experimenting" with being lost. That's a story for another time though.

[Silverback]

Hello Adrian, This survival tin comes from a Military heritage. In particular, if I recall correctly, they were developed with Aircrew in mind. .

All 'prone to capture' units undertake training and use survival kits not just aircrew.

I have said it before for 'survival tin' insert 'possibles pouch' does it make it more acceptable ?

I made my own kit, fit for my purposes it hasnt got a wire saw or a blunt knife. I wouldnt buy a ready made kit

[Fletching]

I made my own and can swap contents around whether I'm keeping it in the car, in my daybag on the motorbike or even when I go sailing (stick it in with the rest of the grab bag with flares etc). Making your own means you can have a fixed blade, a decent torch etc. Never needed it, and mostly agree with what Ade says but for those times when I don't have the usual pack with me...I'd rather have one and not need it than need it and not have one.

:)

[Silverback]

I'd rather have one and not need it than need it and not have one.

nail + hammer = head

[Tony1948]

Good review,but I agree with Ade,Dont feel it's a bit of kit that I would need when out in the woods in this county.

[Juanodaxis]

I made two of them. Yeah I kind of get a kick out of putting them together and updating them, LOL.
The way I see it is like that, you got your kit, your fixed blade, your saw, everything. You are seating on a log carving some spoons with your kit on the ground right by you, suddenly you feel the urge to go and take a leak, while doing so you fall over10 yards away from your camp and injure your self at the same time your leg or arm end up in some awkward place where you can not get out. Ah, happy days, I got a survival tin in my cargo's pocket, and with it I'll be able to free my self and make a quick walking aid to help me get back to my camp which is only ten yards away, where my phone is, inside my tent, safe and dry, I can call for help. The problem is that I hit my head and I’m disorientated, so for some reason I’m walking the other way, getting dipper and dipper inside the woods. I’m lost now, good job I got a little compass in my tin to give me a clue of where to go. However, is getting dark really fast, and I’m getting cold. Well, them matches and that candle will really come handy right now. I manage to find a nice place by a river where I can make a fire, and I must be the luckiest guy alive, I got a fishing kit and within two hours I got my self a lovely fish on my fire.
In my camp I had my Mora knife, my Husqvarna Hatchet, my Laplander, my turbo flame, my rations, and everything else. Too late for that, lol.
Just a little example and the reason why you should carry one :)

[markal17]

Good review i like to make up my own edc that way i have what i need all the time and most ofall it will do the jobs i need it to do

[AdrianRose]

Sorry but I still haven't heard a reason for carrying one of these tins that makes sense ( outside of a military type usage). However, if you do want to carry one, do what many of the wise folk here have said and make your own up.

There is simply too much useless paraphernalia in this particular tin.

Sewing kit? How long do you think you are going to be out there for.
Matches? Why don't they put in a decent fire steel instead.
Snare wire? With no instructions on how to make or set a snare.
6 little plasters?

Better still. Tell a friend where you're going and what approx route you're taking. Establish a time when you should be returning/getting to your destination.

Carry your means of fire lighting attached to you at all times along with a cutting tool as a matter of good practice.

Ade.

[BushcraftAndSurvival]

Its for those situations that you did not plan for Ade! :) Nobody is telling you that you have to have one, its an option and in some schools of thought a good one, in others not such a good one. It is far from perfect true, and it is not designed specifically for the UK either.

I did not even like this kit very much so i'm not defending it but in principle, it is not a bad idea to have one stashed away in a vehicle or pack.

Personally, i have every item in this kit, or something better in my standard kit anyway, except or the fishing kit which i will probably take from this tin and stuff in my pack. But to have a little tin with all this gear in it during a break down, off the beaten track when i was not carrying all of my standard kit, like this fellow in Sweden (http://bushcraftandsurvival.com/man-survives-2-months-car/) would be an advantage, i bet that Peter Skyllberg’s would have preferred to have had one in his glove box than not!

I'm pleased that my review has stimulated some debate anyway, different opinions are a good thing :)

[CanadianMike]

Overall, this type of kit is a last resort sort of thing for military personel, like was mentioned aircrew, but also to special forces types heading into extremely dangerous areas. Take aircrew as an example, something like this will be of huge benefit to a pilot that ejected from from his plane, and because the survival kit is contained in the ejection seat base, and is supposed to separate from the seat and remains attached to the pilot via long lanyard, if a fast 'cut & go' situation occurs, the pilot gets separated from his survival kit, and needs something to rely on besides just a knife or two in his vest. Same as a helo crew, chopper goes down in a remote area, some or all get out safe with what is in their pockets, and the chopper bursts into flames shortly after, they all need basic survival gear to tide them over til rescue.

As far as land forces go, many will have one of these sewn into their jacket/smock, or have one sitting in a pants pocket, just in case they need to drop everything except basic gear/weapons/ammo, GTFO fast and light. All the above is what is this type of kit is meant for. And, all would have had basic training and experience on how to survive with such a kit. It's not a quality kit by far, but is meant for trained individuals to use as a last resort. It's not a Bear Grylls kit by far (not that that with his name on is even close to brilliant, but consider the instructions outlined in the above kit compared to one of the BG kit instruction sheets, the BG is much more detailed in stuff, but also adds to the problem of "I have this survival kit, I will be safe if I need it." without ever having the thought of "Do I know how to use any of the stuff in this?")

This type of kit is mostly Escape & Evasion type gear, and literally is a compact last resort type of deal, and I've always wanted one to check out what's in it. Am happy there is a great review here, some good ideas overall in what to pack into a very small place. So I myself find great value in this review for what it is. Case in point for the bushcraft use, what if canoeing down a set of rapids while on a week's trip, you tip and spill everything, and all you have left once upon shore is what's in your pockets? Would you be able to make fire, shelter, etc. with what's on your person? Exactly where this type of kit with a few pre-planned items on you comes in handy. Emergency, not camping.

There is this basic info (as explained, these cover many of the hard to imitate or improvise items a skilled person could get along with when needed):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini_survival_kits

And I do own one of these:

http://www.equipped.com/psp/index.htm

.....and keep it in my flightsuit at work for when I fly. I know it's lacking, but has some basics, and I added a few other things to it such as a bit more fishing gear (flies), and more safety pins. But I always have my Leatherman Wave on me, made a Kydex neck sheath (ball chain 3/4 covered with gutted paracord) for it, as well as I have a CRKT M21 folding knife in my thigh pocket. I should be carrying a couple large garbage bags (bin liners as you guys know them) in my pockets as well, and other light and unannoying things.

[JEEP]

I'll need to have a go of making one of these tins. Just for kicks...

I have always been a big fan of the all-in-one sami survival kit; http://www.samekniv.no/index.php?option=com_easygallery&act=photos&cid=63&Itemid=59 :p

[Ashley Cawley]

I'll need to have a go of making one of these tins. Just for kicks...

I have always been a big fan of the all-in-one sami survival kit; http://www.samekniv.no/index.php?option=com_easygallery&act=photos&cid=63&Itemid=59 :p
I bet she's not blunt either ;)

Great review Matt, thanks for sharing.

I'm not a particular fan of survival kits just because I find the kit is often sub-standard but obviously it's that way because it's a trade-off on size/space I suppose. I've used this BCB tin and others just for teaching/demonstrations and I also found the knife to be absolutely blunt and useless, what a waste of energy to make it and then not even sharpen it!

Thanks again for the review.

[ian c]

I was given one of these by someone who was leaving the army it was sealed at the time so i opened it, some of the things i did was swap the knife for a small opinal, swap the condoms for small food bags which hold about a litre an half, i gave the wire saw away, put 3 ready made snares in it, replaced the whistle and put in some more fishing line also put in a sail makers needle.

[BushcraftAndSurvival]

I bet she's not blunt either ;)

Great review Matt, thanks for sharing.

I'm not a particular fan of survival kits just because I find the kit is often sub-standard but obviously it's that way because it's a trade-off on size/space I suppose. I've used this BCB tin and others just for teaching/demonstrations and I also found the knife to be absolutely blunt and useless, what a waste of energy to make it and then not even sharpen it!

Thanks again for the review.

Thanks for the feedback Ashley, I have asked BCB for comment on the knife, i thought that perhaps my experience with the knife was a one off but to hear that yours was in the same condition is not a good thing.

Another pre-packed kit that i have had was made by Web Tex, they supplied a Jack Pyke single handed opening knife which is actually a pretty decent little knife and comes razor sharp. Other than that the two kit's are similar with the bizarre exception of webtex opting to supply the whole thing in a plastic box and loosing all of the benefits of the metal tin.

http://www.surplusandoutdoors.com/images/product/main/WEB-TEX-SURVIVAL-KIT.jpg

I'm not a huge fan of webtex in general but the knife they supply is a good one. They give you a proper ferrocerium rod which is a plus but they loose that plus by supplying a book of safety matches. By the time i needed to use those matches, probably a year or two after i bought the kit, they had got damp and not a single match from the whole book lit. Also no water carrier in the webtex version.

Swings and roundabouts, from the two kits you could make a single kit that is better than both.

[jus_young]

...they supplied a Jack Puke single handed opening knife which is actually a pretty decent little knife...

:oops: not sure how to take that one :D

[CanadianMike]

Thanks for the feedback Ashley, I have asked BCB for comment on the knife, i thought that perhaps my experience with the knife was a one off but to hear that yours was in the same condition is not a good thing.

Another pre-packed kit that i have had was made by Web Tex, they supplied a Jack Pyke single handed opening knife which is actually a pretty decent little knife and comes razor sharp. Other than that the two kit's are similar with the bizarre exception of webtex opting to supply the whole thing in a plastic box and loosing all of the benefits of the metal tin.

http://www.surplusandoutdoors.com/images/product/main/WEB-TEX-SURVIVAL-KIT.jpg

I'm not a huge fan of webtex in general but the knife they supply is a good one. They give you a proper ferrocerium rod which is a plus but they loose that plus by supplying a book of safety matches. By the time i needed to use those matches, probably a year or two after i bought the kit, they had got damp and not a single match from the whole book lit. Also no water carrier in the webtex version.

Swings and roundabouts, from the two kits you could make a single kit that is better than both.

Coat the matches with hairspray.................

[BushcraftAndSurvival]

Yes or candle wax. I was really just trying to illustrate a point - if your designing a catch all survival kit for the masses, do you add a book of cardboard safety matches (where the cardboard stick is weak and prone to soaking up moisture ) and hope that the paper book and striker remain intact or do you put in some windproof strike anywhere matches?

Sorry for the Jack Puke typo, it's late and it's been a long day, It's probably better that i get off this tiny laptop now!

[CanadianMike]

I still want to get one for the heck of it, and rebuild it. Mind you, I really just need to scour the dollar stores for larger tins and pick up odds and ends to fill it. But that's just me, a pack rat that enjoys neat things like this and will take what I find useful, bin the rest (for another day).

[Basha72]

I think that's the best bit about a survival tin, is the making/selecting items to put in it ,I've put up pictures of mine on the thread we did a while back about tins, it was a great bit of kit back when I put it together and it still is now. Let's face it that a lot of the first survival schools ran their courses around the contents of the survival tin way before people started to go all primitive and rustic lol

The tin it's self will not save you it's your skills combined with the items that the tin holds that will help you should you ever need it, again it's better to have that small tin in your pocket/ pack than not have it at all for the price it will cost you.

There are loads of Gucci bits of kit out for the bushcrafter and at mostly inflated prices but to knock the humble survival/possible's tin as a redundant piece of kit is a mistake I believe, the biggest mistake people do make With the tin is they never open it until they need it then find the items corroded or prerrished.

Some people don't just stop at the tin some have created survival grab bags, just a bigger version of the tin ! I have a old claymore bag all kitted out with extra items that mostly stays in the car it's all personal taste to what we do in our bushcraft/survival habits with regards to kit and how we use it, just by owning a woodlore knife don't make you a bushcraft genius neither does the person who uses a 8.99 mora knife make them a newbie with little knowledge or skill.

I will be keeping and carrying my tin regardless of the bushcraft fashion trends lol

Basha

[jus_young]

Reading the latest edition of Bushcraft and Survival mag and the reviews for latest Bear Grylls gear is in there. One of the items released is a Scouts Essentials Kit that apparently has been put together as a survival/safety kit obviously aimed at the Scouts. Now I am not going to get into the whole Bear Grylls slating bit as this just seems to be a recurring theme every time the name is mentioned, personally I think he has done quite a bit to promote this interest of ours and has definately increased the profile of the Scout movement even if some of his antics are a little extreme, but with regards to this kit - I just don't quite know what to make of it. The contents are quite simple consisting of basic first aid items, a scout knife, micro torch, button compass and waterproof matches all enclosed in a plastic case, realistic as its probably only supposed to help you out for an odd night if you got lost on an outing rather than supporting yourself for a week or two. But my problem really is just trying to understand the point of it really but at the same time I can - I just don't quite know, you know?

[Al21]

I have to say I'm another who sees no value in these things. Your shop sells these for £17.99 apparently, me, I'd rather have another £17.99 worth of first aid kit.

I notice that no one has mentioned the fact that the knife, while blunt, is a locker. So, if you're carrying this tin all day every day you'll risk breaking the law if you carry the tin in town.

Sapper makes the point that if you change survival tin with possibles pouch will it be more acceptable. For me a possibles pouch contains different things, not that I have one of those either. I do take a repair kit though, an idea from Bill Mason's Path of the Paddle book. This contains useful things when canoeing etc like a multi-tool, sewing awl, housewife, elastic bands, epoxy putty, araldite, plus a container of lifeboat matches and a bic lighter, a 30' length of 300lb kite line and some para cord a couple of spare canoe seat bolts and a selection of wood screws. Stuff that'll make field repairs possible often as strong as those made at home.

If I was likely to find myself behind enemy lines then I'd probably re-evaluate what I carry when out, but I'm not, so I'll stick with stuff I find useful.

Oh yeah, Duct tape, can't go without duct tape! As they say, it's like the force, it has a light side and a dark side and holds the universe together! :)

Al

[BushcraftAndSurvival]

I notice that no one has mentioned the fact that the knife, while blunt, is a locker. So, if you're carrying this tin all day every day you'll risk breaking the law if you carry the tin in town.

Al


The locking blade is about 1 inch long

[Silverback]

Sapper makes the point that if you change survival tin with possibles pouch will it be more acceptable.

If I was likely to find myself behind enemy lines then I'd probably re-evaluate what I carry when out, but I'm not, so I'll stick with stuff I find useful.



Exactly...you examine the possibles and pack the pouch/tin accordingly.

As an analogy take my regular Mountain sack for example. Some of you may go through it examining its contents and ask why it is packed with the things that i have. For instance I have 4 pairs of gloves, 3 hats and 4 buffs - an 8 person shelter - stethoscope and bp cuff, cannulae, a 7m throwline, VHF radio, Red Parachute Flare and orange smoke flare.... excessive you may point out...well yes for your needs assessment maybe, but then you find out what it is i get up to with that rucksack, then it all becomes clear.

I think its my way of saying 'each to their own'

[Marvell]

Nice review. I do love it when people can be bothered to write a proper one.


Lastly we have a wire saw. Wire saws are very difficult and energy expensive to use. They get caught up in the wood frequently and are nowhere near as good as a tradition saw. You can improve the wire saw by converting it into a bow saw

In my experience of use and teaching with all of the items from this type of kit, I find the wire saw is most controversial. People find the difficult to use, trap them, snap them and make no progress. This is generally for a couple of reasons.

1. Over Ambitious

Many people will try and cut a massive, hard log with their wire saw when there is just no need. It's originally a Gigli bone saw, not a chain saw. A nice rule of thumb is that you shouldn't cut anything thicker than your wrist. There are other ways of cutting bigger branches. Always ask yourself if you really need to cut something that big or if you need something that big at all.

2. Technique

As it's flexible, many people try to cut branches by wrapping the saw around and performing a pull/pull action from one side. This creates far too much friction and as the cutting side is away from the pull, the gap can sometimes be closed, the saw gets caught, often kinks and then breaks.

As you quite rightly pointed out, making a bow saw greatly improves the usage and this is because they are designed to be used straight and under tension. With this action, friction is reduced and is only present at the cutting site.


Don't give up on the wire saw, it's a good piece of kit. The only modification I suggest is to get a pair of pliers and give a good crimp on the soft metal fixing that makes the loops as these can sometimes come loose.

[Al21]

The locking blade is about 1 inch long

The length is irrelevant, it's locking, which means that without good reason it's a law breaker. Only sub 3" folder for an every day carry, and I wouldn't take one of those into town on a Friday night either.

Al

[Al21]

Exactly...you examine the possibles and pack the pouch/tin accordingly.

As an analogy take my regular Mountain sack for example. Some of you may go through it examining its contents and ask why it is packed with the things that i have. For instance I have 4 pairs of gloves, 3 hats and 4 buffs - an 8 person shelter - stethoscope and bp cuff, cannulae, a 7m throwline, VHF radio, Red Parachute Flare and orange smoke flare.... excessive you may point out...well yes for your needs assessment maybe, but then you find out what it is i get up to with that rucksack, then it all becomes clear.

I think its my way of saying 'each to their own'

Sounds like perfectly good kit for what you do.

These tins are a completely different thing though, bushcraft snake oil for me and a shame if any newbie wastes £18 when they could have bought better things with their money.

Al

[BushcraftAndSurvival]

The length is irrelevant, it's locking, which means that without good reason it's a law breaker. Only sub 3" folder for an every day carry, and I wouldn't take one of those into town on a Friday night either.

Al

“It is an offence for any person, without lawful authority or good reason, to have with him in a public place, any article which has a blade or is sharply pointed except for a folding pocket-knife which has a cutting edge to its blade not exceeding 3 inches.” [CJA 1988 section 139(1)]

If you have a good reason, then it's ok.

[paulthefish2009]

Hmm! not sure thats right(although i stand to be corrected)thought it was illegal to A; carry any sort of knife with a fixed blade and B; carry a folding knife with a blade length exceeding 3 inches(measured along the cutting edge as opposed to a straight line from hilt to point. When i say carry i mean in everyday life as opposed to when i am out in the woods or fishing etc and then i always keep it in my pack rather than swinging from my belt.The only time i attach it to my self is when i am in camp or in a postion where a member of the public has little chance of seeing me.People today are so paranoid that the first thing they will think if they see a big old blade is nutter,next thing you know the boys in blue will be on your case.

[BushcraftAndSurvival]

It's a direct quote from the Criminal Justice Act 1988 section 139(1) Paul. I expect that there is already a UK knife law post on here somewhere, if not then I'm happy to write on, i have a blog article on it if you want to have a read.

[Marvell]

And according to this page:

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/l_to_o/offensive_weapons_knives_bladed_and_pointed_articl es/


For the purposes of sections 139 and 139A of the Act:


a butterknife, with no cutting edge and no point is a bladed article; (Booker v DPP 169J.P. 368, DC);
a screwdriver is not a bladed article; (R v Davis [1998] Crim L.R. 564 CA);
a "lock knife" does not come into the category of "folding pocket knife" because it is not immediately foldable at all times; (R v Deegan [1998] 2 Cr. App. R. 121 CA).



Which kinda clears it up, I reckon.

[BushcraftAndSurvival]

I don think it does, you can legally carry a 6 inch sheath knife if you have a good reason to, for example a tree surgeon, wood carver, bushcraft instructor, climber, person in a survival situation.

If you had a 1 inch lock knife in a securely fastened survival kit whilst participating in an activity in which there is a risk that you may end up in a survival situation, then you have a good reason to have that knife.

I have had conversations with two police officers in the woods (they were looking for a local kid seen on a stolen motorbike) with my knife clearly in view on my belt and they did not even mention it, they saw it but it was so obvious what i was doing that they didn't even mention it.

I don't really want to be drawn into a knife law discussion but what is clear is that you are allowed to have a knife with you if you have good reason to have it. Or the law would not say that.

[Silverback]

I don't really want to be drawn into a knife law discussion but what is clear is that you are allowed to have a knife with you if you have good reason to have it. Or the law would not say that.

Its been done to death.....and back again, and its not as black and white as you think, its down to the PC involved at the time. All to do with reasonable doubt, intent and other legal stuff like that - nothing to stop them from hauling your ass into jail - and releasing you without charge later - no charges but not a nice situation.

[Marvell]

Oh yes, I completely agree about the "if you have good reason". I posted more to clear up the "one inch locker comes under the three in folder" rule. I have a four inch locking blade which I carry into shops between teaching sessions because I always forget to take it out of my pocket. I'm sure I'd get away with it, as does the carpet fitter and the gardener, but it's a ballache if you have it confiscated and you have to go and explain yourself, etc.

[paulthefish2009]

Maybe this debate should be on different thread? Anyone wan't to get back to the survial tin topic?

[CanadianMike]

I'm still baffled by the laws over there......... should see the number of knives on my person and in my truck! Lol

[Marvell]

I'll add to the tin review to get us back on track.

Born from a military concept of "the kit and your knife is all you have left when you ditch your bergen and webbing when you run away", the unit has to be small and light enough that you'll carry it on your person comfortably (rather than in your bag) and large enough that it might contain all the useful kit you might need. This is very similar to the "possibles pouch" which neatly contains all of the kit you would carry around the woods or some gathering, giving you the opportunity to perform general tasks without having to grab something from your sack.

I find the BCB and other "tobacco tin" survival kits of a suitable size to be carried in a jacket pocket, thigh pocket, or in some old first aid or camera case on the belt. Contrastly, the larger Web-tex one is a bit big and not so robust; nor can it be used to boil water, for instance.

Again, similar to the possibles pouch, the survival tin is supplemented with other carried items such as a knife, steel, compass, whistle and first aid kit, which I tend to keep on me at all time I am hiking, camping, teaching or bushcraft socialising. To this end, it can contain smaller version of these items, which though useful, are not as good as the real thing.

The off the shelf survival kit should be seen as a starting point, to be updated and added to depending on your whim and the environment you are travelling to. Some things can't be sold with the kit, such as pain killers or other medicine you might take regularly. Some things you might like to add, such as a survival straw, heliograph, water bag, tinder card, or cotton wool, which also stops it rattling. Some people update the tin by replacing the electrical tape with duck tape, some wrap it with paracord. I've replaced the knife in the my BCB with the Web-tex knife, which is a slimmer, generally better knife; I've seen some with a mini Opinel blade. If off to the jungle, you might want to put a broad spectrum anti-biotic in it and some anti-malarial tablets.

Of course, there is the general debate about the need for such things, but having on in the car or one in my (hold) luggage on a plane or even a "non-sharp" version in hand luggage (please call your operator for confirmation), makes me feel confident that I have some useful kit should the proverbial hit the proverbial.

I don't tend to take them to bushcraft meets, but I do if I'm wild camping in the middle of Wales. I don't take one on the train, but I do take one on a plane.

Survival kits are, like first aid kits and flares, the sort of thing you carry around and never use, but can be life savers in situations where you needs their contents. It's all well and good knowing you can make a compass from a needle, fishing hooks from bones, cordage from nettles and a whistle from a reed, but how useful would it be just to not have to bother when you've got more important things to think about, like icy wind, water treatment and hungry children?

[jus_young]

That just about sums it up T^

[JEEP]

Quite so T^

[Martin]

Reading this brought this to mind:


http://youtu.be/sX4EDoF0_9k

Martin

[Silverback]

Reading this brought this to mind:Martin

or more appropriately.....this


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcSMaNlcDPs&feature=related

[Martin]

Stop that! It's silly!!!

Martin

[paulthefish2009]

Well put Steve. Paul

[David_JAFO]

hello,
I came across this old chestnut had a read. I noted Since Lofty Wiseman's SAS survival guide popularised the Survival Tin there have been many pre-packaged variants on the market of varying usefulness and quality.. it was Eddie McGhee Para/SAS first 'then' Lofty Wiseman. Origins of the survival tin MI9 Escape & Evasion. SAS the original survival tin came about as the troopers carried tobacco tins 'smokes' & started to place items of use within such to keep the items dry. Used in SAS Selection to determine if the volunteer selection candidate could survive with the bare essentials contained within a tobacco tin the rest scavenged off the land. BCB were/are advised by Ex-SAS. During my service we were set a challenge to fill a tobacco tin with as many useful items, both with the US Rangers we came up with 49 items that were placed neatly into the tin removed & repacked time & again with a tight closing lid & sealed with inner tyre rubber tubing & extra Ranger bands. I still like placing together a tin & contents with the latest items. To think originally the E&E tin came only with matches, a wire saw, pencil, waterproof sheet of paper, E&E silk map, a razor blade, button compass, sail makers needle & thread, fish hooks & line, a cork, water purification tabs, & a condom. Later a few 10p pieces for emergency telephone call use.
Regards
David