IMPORTANT - Something to always remember!

[Ken]

Always remember when your travelling back from the 'wilds' to take your knife off your belt and put it deep in the confines of your rucksack, otherwise, like me, you could end up being arrested for being in posession of an 'offensive weapon' and spending the night in a police cell waiting to be interviewed and telling an officer of the law that your knife is not an offensive weapon but an essential bushcraft tool. Not every officer of the law has heard of bushcraft, Ray Mears or Bear Grylls.

I am still awaiting the return of my bushcraft cutlery and I know with all these knife amnesties they will be hesitant to return it to me.


Trust me, it's not a nice experience!

:(

[Silverback]

Thanks for this Ken. It kind of adds much weight to those who warned of the potential problems in many, many earlier threads who were poo poo'ed by the minority.

Hope you get it back. Hope you have been released without charges

[jbrown14]

Wow, I'm sorry to hear that.

Many is the time I've come out of the woods after a weekend with the cutlery still on my hip.
The laws over here are much less restrictive, and especially the police who work near the areas where I would hike are usually very understanding and will give a guy a chance.

Best of luck to you.

Josh

[Ken]

Fortunately the sergeant responsible for deciding whether to charge me or not had military experience and the fact I stunk of the fire that had kept me sorted for three nights knew why it was in my possession. The PC in charge of the investigation is a different matter. I'll find out on Sunday. As I wasn't charged, they are obliged to return it to me.

[shakya]

Hope you have a happy outcome, i take note for when i am out, thanks for the warning Ken, shakya

[Silverback]

Fortunately the sergeant responsible for deciding whether to charge me or not had military experience and the fact I stunk of the fire that had kept me sorted for three nights knew why it was in my possession. The PC in charge of the investigation is a different matter. I'll find out on Sunday. As I wasn't charged, they are obliged to return it to me.


Just goes to prove doesnt it that its down to the arresting officer and the custody Sgt..and you to prove need, and purpose otherwise your mat tapping in the morning before the judge.

The law is an ass but glad you got away Ken

[jus_young]

Thanks for this Ken. It kind of adds much weight to those who warned of the potential problems in many, many earlier threads who were poo poo'ed by the minority.

Hope you get it back. Hope you have been released without charges

:happy-clapping:

I had 17 scouts and me all out and about with knives last night but as soon as they leave the woods its knives well and truly away. Its just not worth the risk but occasionally you will forget. Hope all goes well.

[rossbird]

Sorry to hear this Ken. Hope you get the cutlery back and of course, no charges.

[Ben Casey]

Hi Mate sorry to hear about your experience (did they give you a body cavity search :D ) if not go back and demand one LOL Reminds me of when I lived in Ipswich I used to get on the bus with my machete I never knew it was against the law and I had my Lock knife to. Someone told me at the allotments they where illegal and I stopped in the end :)
I hope you do get your knife back though

Ben

[Thumbcrusher]

whatever happened to common sense? They could have easily just reminded you of your mistake and maybe given a little warning and ensured you put the knife away. but no, it was an easy tick in a target box once again and thats the problem. common sense is trumped by having to reach targets every time!

[JonnyP]

Always sensible to hide the tools when out in public, but it makes me wonder if you would of been pulled in if you were carrying a set of screwdrivers and a hammer or stuff like that.. Pretty much anything can be an offensive weapon..

[Roadkillphil]

Thanks for this Ken. It kind of adds much weight to those who warned of the potential problems in many, many earlier threads who were poo poo'ed by the minority.

Hope you get it back. Hope you have been released without charges

Exactly, as some would have argued that we are free men of the woods bla d bla..... Is it really worth the stress, hassle and possible loss of a sometimes beloved tool, not to mention the other possiblity of a criminal record to argue this freedom to an officer of the law?

In your case Ken, this was obviously a small matter of forgetfulness and not you trying to flaunt the 'freedom of the woodsman'.

Hope it all works out bud, will you be frequenting the RV this year?

[Realearner]

Bit of bad luck there hope it all turns out ok.
As for common sense, it is almost an age thing now as no one is allowed to think for them selves.

[jbrown14]

As for common sense, it is almost an age thing now as no one is allowed to think for them selves.

That's the real shame of modern society. Legislating common sense and morality seem to be the norm.

[paulthefish2009]

Sorry to hear about that ken,hope it all works out ok.Paul

[JEEP]

This happens all the time here in Denmark - except from the fact that on top of a D.Kr. 6000 fine and the fact that you loose your knife - you also risk spending 6 days in jail and to have "possession of illegal weapons" added to your criminal record.

The police has been instructed, by our legislators, that they are to make no exceptions - no matter the situation.

[luresalive]

This happens all the time here in Denmark - except from the fact that on top of a D.Kr. 6000 fine and the fact that you loose your knife - you also risk spending 6 days in jail and to have "possession of illegal weapons" added to your criminal record.

The police has been instructed, by our legislators, that they are to make no exceptions - no matter the situation.


:shocked:

[Kernowek Scouser]

whatever happened to common sense? They could have easily just reminded you of your mistake and maybe given a little warning and ensured you put the knife away. but no, it was an easy tick in a target box once again and thats the problem. common sense is trumped by having to reach targets every time!

What are the odds if PC Plod did employ common sense, gave you a slap on the wrist and told you to hide your knife away, his mate acting sergeant jobsworth, would then arrest you anyway, for carrying a concealed weapon?

If we are not careful, we will soon have so many laws, folks will be afraid to leave the house in case they break one and even then will run the risk of loitering with intent, in their own living rooms!

Hope it all work out for you fella.

[treefrog]

Wow. That's astonishing. Hope all turns out in your favour.

Thankfully the rulemakers in this country haven't latched onto knives yet. Wearing a knife on your belt is part of our dress code.

[happybonzo]

Mainly posted so that I can follow this post

The Re-enactor people are always getting into trouble for walking around with pointy swords, axes and knives

[LandRoverMatt]

Sorry to hear about that ken, il remember that for the future.

[JEEP]

:shocked:

Indeed...

Here's a few other shockers:

If you knife's blade is longer than 12 cm, you need an especially good reason for carrying it in the woods. The validity of said reason is up to the police officer to decide. That means, that though it is legal to carry a knife in the woods here in Denmark, I risk going to jail every time I take my 8" leuku out. Why? Because (and this is a direct quote from a policeman, when I went to the station and asked about the rules regarding larger knives) "You do not need such a large knife, you could just carry an axe." My answer to that comment was that my personal preference in tools, was no business of the police, their job was to decide whether my intent with said knife was legal or not. His answer: "Then you better hope I don't catch you carrying it!" I turned around an walked out after that comment, I had nothing constructive to add.

One hand assisted knives are illegal here in Denmark. According to the law a knife is one hand assisted, when it is constructed to be. According to the police, any knife than someone can open one handed, is one hand assisted. This means that virtually any blade you carry can be "made/considered" illegal by the police officer searching you. I sell a lot of knives at the shop - and now and then a customer comes in, telling that he has had a knife consficated and have been presented with a knife, due to a knife bought from us. It is the same circus every time, always ending op with us having to ask our supplier for a statement from the main weapons office in Copenhagen. We have yet to "loose" one of these battles with our local police - yet they keep on harassing our costumers.

Neck knives are illegal here in Denmark, which means that you risk being fined for carrying any knife around you neck - no matter where you are and/or whether you have a valid purpose for carrying the knife (no, I am, unfortunally, not kidding!)

It is perfectly legal for me to keep a folding shovel and an axe in the back of our car, at all time. But if I keep a fixed blade knife, a lockable folder/mulittool or any folder/mulittool with a blade over 7 cm - then I am breaking the law.

[Proventurer]

Always remember when your travelling back from the 'wilds' to take your knife off your belt and put it deep in the confines of your rucksack, otherwise, like me, you could end up being arrested for being in posession of an 'offensive weapon' and spending the night in a police cell waiting to be interviewed and telling an officer of the law that your knife is not an offensive weapon but an essential bushcraft tool. Not every officer of the law has heard of bushcraft, Ray Mears or Bear Grylls.

I am still awaiting the return of my bushcraft cutlery and I know with all these knife amnesties they will be hesitant to return it to me.


Trust me, it's not a nice experience!

:(

"Yikes" this is all scary stuff,
It reminds me why I'm out here in South Africa,where such matters are somewhat more liberal, though there have been some rumblings lately, I'll abide once I see the Zulu's & Xhosa's are no longer brandishing assegais at ceromonial gatherings, or toy-toying down the street at some protest or other, with knobkerries in their hands.

[happybonzo]

@ Jeep - You seem to have very tough "knife" laws in Denmark. Have you had much trouble with "knife" related crime in the past?

[JEEP]

@ Jeep - You seem to have very tough "knife" laws in Denmark. Have you had much trouble with "knife" related crime in the past?

Not really. Knife assaults has been in decline since the 50s. But the media is blowing up the issue at the moment - and has been for the last ten years.

[Ken]

Exactly, as some would have argued that we are free men of the woods bla d bla..... Is it really worth the stress, hassle and possible loss of a sometimes beloved tool, not to mention the other possiblity of a criminal record to argue this freedom to an officer of the law?

In your case Ken, this was obviously a small matter of forgetfulness and not you trying to flaunt the 'freedom of the woodsman'.

Hope it all works out bud, will you be frequenting the RV this year?


Yes, Phil, me and the mrs will be at the RV. Can't wait to be honest!

[Ken]

I'd like to thank you all for your words of support. I'll keep you posted on whether I get my trusty tool back, or if I'm forced to fork out another £80 to replace it. It's my 40th birthday tomorrow and one of my presents will be a rather nice little axe. Better get a cab home and hope the police aren't following me home!

[Martin]

Ken, if you were on your way back from a night out in the woods, how did a police officer come to arrest you for carrying a knife? It's not clear in your original post what the circumstances were. I'm sure this information would also be useful.

Martin

[Humakt]

Some seem to be saying this is an outrage, but let's not forget that Ken has NOT been charged with anything (I am right in saying that, aren't I, Ken?).
Whatever excuse he came up with, it was obviously adequate.
I see that as an essentially good thing. Common sense did prevail (even if it could have prevailed a night in the cells earlier...)
Let's just hope enough sense prevails that he gets his knife back - should if no offence has been committed.

Also, I'm surprised at Jeep's words. Sounds like it's just as draconian in Denmark as here in the UK. I always associate the Scandinavian countries as being more relaxed.

Even those great liberal wildernesses of the US and Canada seem to be experiencing more constraints (though decidedly liberal in comparison).

The world and its attitudes are changing. I'm sure the hand-wringers out there will be bemoan that fact, but it's always been thus. The world is getting busier and busier, with the population increasing. Laws have to be made for all. You and I know we are responsible and legit knife users but you can't legislate with a clause saying 'idiots excepted.'

I'll continue to take what I need for what I am doing and store and use such tools in a responsible manner. The key is to stand outside yourself and look at yourself as a stranger would look at you. You know you're OK, but they don't. It's nothing to do with 'rights'. It's about respect and responsibility - respect for the feelings of those who don't know you, and responsibility to use items that some see as threatening (whether used threateningly or not) in a considerate manner.
Too many bushcrafters spend a lot of time wailing about their right to carry bladed items and don't spend enough time thinking about other's rights to not have strangers wandering around with threatening-looking items.

[JonnyP]

Ken, if you were on your way back from a night out in the woods, how did a police officer come to arrest you for carrying a knife? It's not clear in your original post what the circumstances were. I'm sure this information would also be useful.

Martin
It sounds to me like he had it on show, and was pulled up because of that..
The thing is, carrying a fixed blade is not illegal, you just need to have a good excuse for carrying it. That comes down to what policeman hears the excuse, and what sort of mood he/she is in etc.. Some people carrying knives will be ok, while others will not.
Ken might of been pulled over cos he was dressed all in black with a balaclava on his head and a swag bag though ;0)

Jeep.. It sounds like the media hype rules over there too. Everything is so much in the public eye these days. Can you buy knives on ebay over there..?

[Dan XF]

I guess it comes down to being able to justify the tool you're carrying. About 10 years ago I was travelling back from a winter trip to Scotland on the train and coming through London the Police were stopping and checking bags at random. Even businessmen were having attache cases searched. I had 2 ice axes strapped to the outside of my bergen and when asked why they were there I explained about safety equipment for winter mountaineering. The PC said I must be mad in that weather and let me on my way. Just as well he didn't see my buck knife, those 3" of death dealing stainless steel would have had me locked away. Luckily the 2 12" serrated steel blades on the axes were just for jolly japes. strange world.

[JEEP]

Also, I'm surprised at Jeep's words. Sounds like it's just as draconian in Denmark as here in the UK. I always associate the Scandinavian countries as being more relaxed.

Denmark is becoming less and less "Scandinavian" in that way unfortunally...


Jeep.. It sounds like the media hype rules over there too. Everything is so much in the public eye these days. Can you buy knives on ebay over there..?

It does unfortunally...

We can buy knives from eBay, at least principially, but quite a few of the larger eBay knife sellers has blacklisted Denmark, due to the fact that you need a permit to import any knife with a blade over 12 cm.

[paulthefish2009]

While i dont necessarily agree with the law, i suppose you do have to ask the question" do you really need to carry agreat big blade?" My biggest knife is only 4 inches and to be honest it does everything i need it to do when out and about. Yes i know it's over size to be considered legal in england and i always ensure i dont keep it in veiw when in places i may bump into someone. Any road i do hope everything works out ok for you ken,sure it will. Paul

[bronskimac]

What really winds me up about knife laws is the assumption of guilt. There should be a need for the authorities to prove the case against you. Innocent until proved guilty is no longer a principle respected by the lawmakers of the UK.

Silly thing about knife crime, stabbings seam to be mostly committed with smaller pocket knives or household knives. Will we have to switch to plastic bread knifes next? And as for those knitting needles...

[GalaxyRider]

I'll continue to take what I need for what I am doing and store and use such tools in a responsible manner. The key is to stand outside yourself and look at yourself as a stranger would look at you. You know you're OK, but they don't. It's nothing to do with 'rights'. It's about respect and responsibility - respect for the feelings of those who don't know you, and responsibility to use items that some see as threatening (whether used threateningly or not) in a considerate manner.
Too many bushcrafters spend a lot of time wailing about their right to carry bladed items and don't spend enough time thinking about other's rights to not have strangers wandering around with threatening-looking items.

That about sums it up really. It's a bit like dog owners whose sodding great dog jumps at you, so you punch it (well I do!) then they get all arsey because "He was only being friendly!" Unfortunately perception is everything. Anyway it seems the OP is in the clear, so alls well that ends well.

Apologies by the way, I seem to have jumped straight in without introducing myself, I ride a Dawes Galaxy, at least I did until the 65 mile debacle yesterday up to Dunkery Beacon, it may end up on e-bay after that :ashamed: Apart from that I am just saving you all the trouble of having to say 'hi' in a seperate thread!

[Silverback]

Apologies by the way, I seem to have jumped straight in without introducing myself, I ride a Dawes Galaxy, at least I did until the 65 mile debacle yesterday up to Dunkery Beacon, it may end up on e-bay after that :ashamed: Apart from that I am just saving you all the trouble of having to say 'hi' in a seperate thread!

Hi Galaxy and welcome. I must make a point of not introducing you to my dog ;)

[shakya]

Hello Galaxy and welcome... i don't have a dog, but i fancy your Dawes Galaxy! John

[rossbird]

Anyone heard from Ken...did the police return his knife?

[Amazed]

Very sorry to hear that has happened to you. Knife restrictions are ridiculous! Why are we all judged by the small minority that treat these fine tools as weapons?

[jbrown14]

That about sums it up really. It's a bit like dog owners whose sodding great dog jumps at you, so you punch it (well I do!) then they get all arsey because "He was only being friendly!" Unfortunately perception is everything. Anyway it seems the OP is in the clear, so alls well that ends well.


Well at least I'm not the only one who's delivered a swift kick to the ribs of some "friendly" dog. Welcome to the community, Galaxy!

Josh

[Humakt]

It's been a couple of weeks now, and I notice there's still been no update from Ken on how this situation resolved.
I also notice that Ken's last post was the day after posting this story. Hope it wasn't just a fictitious piece of scare-mongering.
Ken, if you're reading this, any news?
Hope they haven't locked you up and thrown away the key...

[KaiTheIronHound]

Knife laws seem to be getting more and more strict everywhere. First a question, then a story. I've heard that in the UK it is still legal to carry a small folding knife so long as it doesnt lock. Is this true, because in Aus its illegal regardless. And now the story. I'm a volunteer bushfire fighter, and a few years ago i was at what we call a "Section 44" fire. Basically thats the worst a bushfire can be, and generally ends with a task force of firefighters from all over the state, and sometimes even from interstate all working on the fire together. My crew had just come off a 48 hour shift, and were heading back through the town to get something to eat. We were riding in the truck, and were in full uniform. We got out of the truck, and 2 of us, myself and the captain of the crew, had both a fixed blade knife and a multitool on our belts. We got grabbed by the local plod for carrying offensive weapons in public, and both ended up in front of a judge for it. The police had charged us with carrying knives without adequate reason. Fortunately the judge was a rural firefighter himself, and reasoned that though we probably should have removed the tools from our person before exiting the truck that a 48 hour shift in hell was probably a good reason to forget that we were carrying items that are considered illegal without good cause. The charges were dropped and removed from our records, but its just an example of how insensible the police can be. I hope everything works out for you Ken.

[Martin]

Kai, you are correct that it is legal to carry a small knife although it mustn't lock. The blade length needs to be shorter than 4". It would be legal to carry a longer, fixed blade, in public providing you can show good reason for carrying such a blade.

In a funny sort of way, I'm relieved that you have more draconian knife laws than we do as it may stop some of the whingers who constantly complain about how bad things are in the UK and how they can't wait to get away. I hasten to add that those people are not frequent visitors to NaturalBushcraft but you only have to visit any number of forums to find them.

Martin

[KaiTheIronHound]

I've met people like that before mate, they are everywhere. Personally i still carry a slip-joint folder with a 3.5 inch blade. Its in my pocket at all times, and my first aid gear is in whatever bag i happen to be carrying. If plod asks, my excuse is i use it with my first aid kit, and thats a reasonable excuse. Usually they are pretty laid back about anything small that doesnt look like its specifically designed for ramming into the squishy bits of people. The big problem is we are pretty sure slipjoints with blades no longer than 4 inches are legal, but because the laws seem to be in a constant state of flux coupled with the fact that they dont explain to plod the difference between a lockblade and a slipjoint or friction folder, you can end up in the cop shop overnight for carrying a keyring victorinox if the copper is in a bad enough mood.