Bushcraft popularity?

[luresalive]

Do you think Bushcraft as we know it is becoming more popular, less popular or on a plateau? I've seen less people at gatherings and less people joining and posting on forums but I'd like to see if I'm simply reading that wrong, what's your take on the popularity of Bushcraft at the mo?:confused2:

[Martin]

This is a very interesting question and one to which I don't have an answer or even an opinion if I'm honest. I'll be very interested to see what others think about it though.

Our group meets are getting fewer and fewer and, because of other commitments, my time for 'bushcraft' things is quite limited at this time of year. I'm really looking forward to the Cornwall RV though, and catching up with friends old and new.

Martin

[Basha72]

Same as Martin really,

Guess some of us get out and do it, some just like to watch it on the box and the back garden bushcrafter.

The less people attending meets/shows could be due to the commercial side of them becoming more important than skill sharing ?? To me the wilderness gathering is a prime example (pulling people out of talks because they had the wrong wrist band on !!) but that's just my view


Also looking forward to the RV :)

Basha

[Sar-ian]

I think you may have opened up a massive can of worms.

[RoughRambler]

I believe there is a bit of a lull in bushcraft at the moment.
Maybe due to the lack of television shows and events and how they are advertised and sold.

Its a shame in my opinion. I have just started to get really involved in bushcraft and encourage anyone who has a slight interest to try more.
People can find out so much about themselves and whats around them. But I'm pretty sure I'm preaching to the choir here.......

Kris

http://youtu.be/Uf3YxIJfC0c

[Martin]

When I say other commitments, those who know me will know that my other commitments get me deep into the outdoors but just no time to sit and develop bushcraft skills. I am to be found, every other weekend, out on the moors training this year's ATC Ten Tors teams. :)

Oh, and that isn't the first time that the Wilderness Gathering has been cited on here for its poor treatment of people who attend. Come to the Cornwall RV at Easter each year for £10 per night or to one of the very infrequent NaturalBushcraft meets which used to cost about £3 per night from memory to see what it's really all about. I despair at the 'must make a profit' culture that has grown in Bushcraft over the last few years.

Martin

[HillBill]

I don't think forum activity can measure bushcrafts popularity. Especially when you consider that the internet is what bushcraft ISN'T all about. I would expect there to be more shrafters who dont use forums than those who do :).

Gatherings can be expensive or a great distance away, and i suspect many folk enjoy bushcraft as a private thing. So the greater number of folk at gatherings and the like could be the problem for them.

Who knows?

Forums can get very repetitive once you have been a member for a few years, this also puts folk off them. :)

I don't think there is anything to worry about too much :)

[Roger]

Oh, and that isn't the first time that the Wilderness Gathering has been cited on here for its poor treatment of people who attend. Come to the Cornwall RV at Easter each year for £10 per night or to one of the very infrequent NaturalBushcraft meets which used to cost about £3 per night from memory to see what it's really all about. I despair at the 'must make a profit' culture that has grown in Bushcraft over the last few years.

Martin
What poor treatment is that then? Anybody who knows us and mentions any problems to us regarding The Gathering knows that we are open to suggestions and feed back to improve the event for all concerned. People only have to talk to us rather than post dubious stuff on forums.

As far as previous comments in this thread are concerned, wristbands are issued and checked as a means of identifying those who have entered via the front gate legitimately and those who have jumped the fence. That is to make it fair to those who have paid to enter and therefore contributed to all the infastructure on site that everybody uses.

Martin, I assume you don't want to make a living or feed your family with the money you earn from your career. That is all we do.

Roger
www.wildernessgathering.co.uk

[Humakt]

I think Hillbill got it about right.
Personally I've never been to meets. They just don't appeal to me. I have a couple of friends who I've gone camping/live-roleplaying/battle re-enacting with for many many MANY years. Whether it's the three of us out for the night, just the two, or just alone, that's how I like to enjoy it.
As Hillbill said, the forums get a bit repetitive and it's hard to maintain a constant presence on them - you can read 'what hammock/bivvy/sleeping bag' etc threads only so many times.
I really have no idea how popular bushcraft is. Or ever was. And I don't think I really care.
We used to call it camping, or camping in the woods. Now we call it bushcraft. When that term dies we'll call it something else. Makes no difference to me.

[Richie]

I class myself as a newbie still, having attended one Dartmoor 4 day meet, one group meet weekend in Wales and only 8 solo nights out so far, but I would guess that finances have a big part to play at the moment.
With me it's more a problem of childcare as the wife works away a lot but there are one or two meets I'd like to make that are just too expensive. Not just the costs of the meet (which I'm sure offers great value) but the cost of fuel getting there.

One of the big pluses for me is that I can throw a pack in the car and head off somewhere local(ish) and spend a few days out at no cost.
There was a significant cost in setting up (and I'm no kit monkey) but now I have it it's time to make it pay!

I've recently been made redundant and I was wise enough to get the kit before the job ended so the wife didn't moan when I was spending but not earning.

[Adam Savage]

I think it seems like bushcraft has taken a dip, but only because we've just come out of winter, and a fair few folk are fair weather campers (nothing wrong with that though, least they are getting out sometimes). We should see another burst before too long I'd guess. Another contributing factor, is the lack of cash going about. People have to put in the extra time with work, or simply can't afford to take holidays.
Having said that, quite a lot of forum members (across all forums, not just ours) will often disappear for a month, or two, or three, or four, before coming back into the "lime light".
I don't think people have stopped wanting to do these things, it's simply a case of having the time to do them, and if they do, having the time to get on a forum (or other public space) and share their outings. :)

[luresalive]

When I say other commitments, those who know me will know that my other commitments get me deep into the outdoors but just no time to sit and develop bushcraft skills. I am to be found, every other weekend, out on the moors training this year's ATC Ten Tors teams. :)

Oh, and that isn't the first time that the Wilderness Gathering has been cited on here for its poor treatment of people who attend. Come to the Cornwall RV at Easter each year for £10 per night or to one of the very infrequent NaturalBushcraft meets which used to cost about £3 per night from memory to see what it's really all about. I despair at the 'must make a profit' culture that has grown in Bushcraft over the last few years.Martin


That is my most deeply held bugbear, that really annoys me too!

[Martin]

What poor treatment is that then? Anybody who knows us and mentions any problems to us regarding The Gathering knows that we are open to suggestions and feed back to improve the event for all concerned. People only have to talk to us rather than post dubious stuff on forums.

As far as previous comments in this thread are concerned, wristbands are issued and checked as a means of identifying those who have entered via the front gate legitimately and those who have jumped the fence. That is to make it fair to those who have paid to enter and therefore contributed to all the infastructure on site that everybody uses.

Martin, I assume you don't want to make a living or feed your family with the money you earn from your career. That is all we do.

Roger
www.wildernessgathering.co.uk

Roger. I can't find the post which catalogued the problems encountered but the member concerned did talk to someone and was given fairly short shrift. It was about access issues as he suffers from a severe bad back.

I'm sure we won't agree on this matter, but it is the belief and philosophy of NaturalBushcraft that ancient skills should be shared freely as they were for generations. No one charged for passing on their knowledge although, of course, the blacksmith charged for his skills, as did the baker, the fletcher, the cooper, the wheelwright etc etc etc. I have no problem with making a profit for tangible things and services rendered, but I'm very glad that NaturalBushcraft is free and that people value it highly enough to make purely voluntary donations which go some way to paying for the costs of running the website and forum.

The NaturalBushcraft meets charged exactly what the land owner charged us, not a penny more. In fact, Ashley used to spend his own money on materials for fire lighting demos. I have been given several items at meets, particularly precious is my wooden cup which was turned by Bernie who is a member on here, as well as a couple of fire steels and a knife. Many people have contributed food for communal meals and there has never been a suggestion that we should charge for this, even though only a few of us have actually contributed. These are purely not for profit affairs and always will be.

Anyway, each to his own, like I said, I'm sure we won't agree on this matter but I still respect your right to hold a differing opinion to me.

Martin

[Adam Savage]

I can see both sides of the charging argument, but I won't even start to get involved lol. There will always be a for and an against, and there will always be people that will and won't pay the charges. I shall leave it at that :)

[Kernowek Scouser]

I wonder, if you defined 'Bushcraft as we know it' how many people would agree with the definition and how many would say 'No Bushcraft is...'

On a very general level, a level that includes folks who just spend a night or two at a campsite, in a tent upwards, I'd imagine the number of people participating is increasing. Whether this is due to an increase in genuine enthusiasm for the outdoors, or folks simply cutting their cloth to fit tighter constraints on their finances and opting for a 'staycation' not too far from home and in a tent, I don't know.

On a more specific level, a level that includes traditional and/or survival skills, I would go with plateau. I can't back this up with any stats or examples, it's just a gut feeling. I do know from my time in online retail, that any participatory experience you care to put under the 'bushcraft' label, sold poorly, both on an individual and corporate level and provided instructors involved with bugger all repeat enquiries, let alone business.

In the age of 'I want it now' the thought of investing, days, weeks, months or years of your time, to learn and hone a skill that may have no practical application other than it makes you happy, appears to be anathema to a lot of people. And when you attach a price to the learning of the skill, the few who are not averse to investing their time, become fewer.

But, as was said above, the few who remain will not include those who just go out and do it, on their own or with a few friend and neither know or care about forums like this one. How many people this would be, I have no idea.

As far as the for profit/for free argument goes, in my experience while some courses and instruction appear at first glance to be more than a tad expensive, when you factor in land and facilities rental or mortgage, kit and materials provided, public liability insurance etc. then look at what is left for an instructor to call their take home pay for actually giving instruction; in many cases you'd see that the instruction / skill sharing is the least expensive part of the package. So whilst I'm always happy to learn something for free, I'm not going to condemn anyone just trying to make a living, teaching others what they know.

Anyway, that's my rambling on the matter.

Happy Camping/Bushcrafting/Outdoor Activity-ing :D

[Adam Savage]

Well said, and better put than I could ever do lol

[Roadkillphil]

I'm sure we won't agree on this matter, but it is the belief and philosophy of NaturalBushcraft that ancient skills should be shared freely as they were for generations. No one charged for passing on their knowledge although, of course, the blacksmith charged for his skills, as did the baker, the fletcher, the cooper, the wheelwright etc etc etc. I have no problem with making a profit for tangible things and services rendered, but I'm very glad that NaturalBushcraft is free and that people value it highly enough to make purely voluntary donations which go some way to paying for the costs of running the website and forum.

The NaturalBushcraft meets charged exactly what the land owner charged us, not a penny more. In fact, Ashley used to spend his own money on materials for fire lighting demos. I have been given several items at meets, particularly precious is my wooden cup which was turned by Bernie who is a member on here, as well as a couple of fire steels and a knife. Many people have contributed food for communal meals and there has never been a suggestion that we should charge for this, even though only a few of us have actually contributed. These are purely not for profit affairs and always will be.

Anyway, each to his own, like I said, I'm sure we won't agree on this matter but I still respect your right to hold a differing opinion to me.

Martin

And this is what I feel is the soul and centre of bushcraft (or whatever you choose to call it), Trade. You give, you receive. We share, we learn. It's what I like about my involvement with Natural Bushcraft.

I understand that there are overheads at these events and that some folks have chosen "bushcraft" as a career and as with any job expect to be paid. However, personally I feel that to mix moneymaking with any of my chosen hobbies would kill off a certain amount of joy. That's why for me it will always be a hobby.
Of course, there will always be a price for skills put to good use, the blacksmith doesn't make a blade for free! :)
I pay the smith because I can't make a blade myself. But I will pay a fair price.
At the Cornwall RV I will be doing one workshop ( it's all I can afford) I will nonetheless be paying for knowledge and skill sharing. But I feel it is fairly priced, both the event and the workshop.

As for the popularity, I agree with a lot of posts here. It's probably hard to measure, we'm just coming out of winter and times are hard.

I just hope it doesn't get too popular, I quite like being the only guy in the woods :D

[KaiTheIronHound]

Phil, i also like being the only one in the woods! I dont mind other people when they are responsible with the environment. Unfortunately many of my good spots have now been invaded by bloody motorcross idiots who tear up the ground and leave trash everywhere. Makes me angry!

[Humakt]

I just hope it doesn't get too popular, I quite like being the only guy in the woods :D

That.
Over the past couple of years I have seen more debris shelters and firepits in the woods than I have in the previous 15 years combined!
On one hand the increase in popularity is a good thing. On the other, it's bad. On balance, for better or worse, I'd be happier with fewer people.

[Adam Savage]

However, personally I feel that to mix moneymaking with any of my chosen hobbies would kill off a certain amount of joy. That's why for me it will always be a hobby.


I have to agree with you there. I really used to enjoy making knives, and I could have done it all day long, but since I started selling them, it's lost some of it's edge (pardon the pun). Don't get me wrong, I still like making them, just nowhere near as much as I did, and believe it or not, there isn't much profit in making knives in small quantities. I'm lucky to make 15% profit, which isn't exactly life changing money lol.

[Metal mug]

Phil, i also like being the only one in the woods! I dont mind other people when they are responsible with the environment. Unfortunately many of my good spots have now been invaded by bloody motorcross idiots who tear up the ground and leave trash everywhere. Makes me angry!Motorcross seems to be growing in popularity. There's a lot more torn up woods and paths now than there was a couple of years ago. :(

[Basha72]

As far as previous comments in this thread are concerned, wristbands are issued and checked as a means of identifying those who have entered via the front gate legitimately and those who have jumped the fence. That is to make it fair to those who have paid to enter and therefore contributed to all the infastructure on site that everybody uses.

Martin, I assume you don't want to make a living or feed your family with the money you earn from your career. That is all we do.

Roger
www.wildernessgathering.co.uk

The wristband incident I saw was a school was giving a talk in the large open area we were all sat and stood listening and a chap was going around checking bands to see what colour they were, not only was he checking but also actively moving people on who had the wrong band to stand and listen to a talk, it wasn't a master class etc maybe the talks should be given in a roped off area and checked on entering to avoid the situation in the first place. On the plus side it's an opertunity to browse stalls of second hand kit !!

I appreciate the checking of the bands, I'd be peeved if someone had got in free when I had paid 75-80 quid to get in

I've been a few times but for now that will be it due to cost and fuel etc etc


Basha

[happybonzo]

I've been a few times but for now that will be it due to cost and fuel etc etc
Basha

I think that the cost of fuel is going to be the killer for a lot of "outdoors" activities. I live near to a "weekend Holiday" area and have seen fewer visitors around.

[JonnyP]

At the Cornwall RV I will be doing one workshop ( it's all I can afford) I will nonetheless be paying for knowledge and skill sharing. But I feel it is fairly priced, both the event and the workshop.


You can do two if you want mate.. I don't charge for going on the pole lathe. All the materials used come free to me..

Interesting thread this.. I whole heartedly agree with passing on knowledge for free, and any meets held at the farm here will always be free, but I fully understand that big meets like the Wilderness Gathering, BcUK meet and the RV etc have to come at a cost. Same as if you go to a dedicated Bushcraft school.
At the end of the day.. You pays you're money (or not) you takes you're choice. There will always be small meets every so often that you can get to for free, or for a small fee and you can learn stuff, but its also good to get to the big meets (imo) that have a schedule, where I believe you learn more stuff.

I love that so many people go out on their own, I really should do that again somewhen. You really do see and hear more wildlife that way and you learn by being hands on.

Back to the subject, I do not believe Bushcraft is growing less popular. The RV for one is certainly getting bigger and bigger, and just because you are not getting so many threads on the forums doesn't mean there are less people out there. I think people just do their own thing and do not need to shout it from the roof tops.

[Roadkillphil]

You can do two if you want mate.. I don't charge for going on the pole lathe. All the materials used come free to me..


Geddon! :D I didn't get a chance last year :D I need some ideas on what to make though...

I equally enjoy spending time alone in the woods as I do at a small or even large meet. All the time out there is special and some of it comes at a monetary cost, some of it doesn't.

Youm right Jonny, some folks just like to learn wilderness skills and don't yap about it as much as the likes of I!! :)

[Adam Savage]

I love that so many people go out on their own, I really should do that again somewhen. You really do see and hear more wildlife that way and you learn by being hands on.



To me, that is a major part of bushcraft. Many times, I have been at a meet, when the knowledge I share with people, comes entirely from personal experience, that I only really do when I'm on my own. At larger meets, or meets with a few good friends, it's easy to be lazy, and just sit back and drink, chat, laugh, and have a good ol' time. :)

[fatsnacka]

Back to the original question

im still interested in bush craft and im off out for 2 night with a mate of mine who is just getting into it i think with some people its in there blood others try it and don't like it either way im hear to stay :camping:

[Realearner]

I think that it has gone quite!!! Because most people have had to tighten their belts and pay bills etc before having money to play with.
I myself have not stopped working and only now can I think of getting out and enjoying the wilds, I don't like to pay for something I can either get from online or talking to people and having ago and having a bit of trial and error. So I am selective in courses, and only research who to go to and use by their time in bushcraft, don't like newer schools with lots of fancy hype.
So anyone ine Kent in a couple of weeks might want to get out PM me :D I don't charge for a chat and brew, might even have a laugh..

[AdrianRose]

Hi all.

I have watched this thread with great interest and on the whole I agree with everything that has been said.

I whole heartedly sympathise with you on the motocross bike issue and I would like to extend this out to include some of the "mountain bike warriors" who seem to bomb around my local woodland. One of which once informed me that I should keep off the footpath in case I got run over by a mountain biker!! When I responded by advising him to "go forth and multiply", he tried to justify his statement by saying he was only trying to do me a favour!!

For me, there is no one "definitive" answer. I think that a combination of finances, lack of available woodland, time of year etc are all contributing factors. I also agree with the comment that as there currently are no real "bushcraft oriented" shows in the limelight at the moment, this may affect the broader popularity base.

However, with all this having been said, I work for a very large national chain of well known DIY/home enhancement stores and all the staff know that bushcraft is "my thing". All of the staff in the store have voted overwhelmingly that the next team building day be "bushcraft related" such as fire lighting, bushtucker challenges and a pit roast meal to finish the evening out.

This got me thinking that maybe our passion for our hobby could inspire where the lack of descent tv programmes are failing?

Ade.

[luresalive]

Yeah Mountain Biking is really big over here at the moment I think it's taken over from bushcraft, the amount of MB's I see over here far outweighs bushcrafters and even dog walkers, and the swathes they cut through virgin woodland is ridiculous, causing a really alarming amount of new furrows that other people now use as a path thus opening up the recesses of the woods even more and causing greater disruption to wildlife!

[Adam Savage]

Yeah Mountain Biking is really big over here at the moment I think it's taken over from bushcraft, the amount of MB's I see over here far outweighs bushcrafters and even dog walkers, and the swathes they cut through virgin woodland is ridiculous, causing a really alarming amount of new furrows that other people now use as a path thus opening up the recesses of the woods even more and causing greater disruption to wildlife!

Mountain bikes are not permitted on parts of Dartmoor, due to the furrows and damage they cause. I think that rule should be implemented in more areas. I know they need somewhere to go too, but let them use old quarries, not ancient woodland.

[happybonzo]

This is going off topic but I had a heck of a lot of trouble with Mountain Bikers cutting up paths in our woodlands. We have also had a few near misses with walkers as well.
They are a ****ing menace and it is only a matter of time before somebody is killed or seriously injured.

[El]

I will doing quite a bit of weekend stealth camping again with my young son this year...and we shall be using mountain bikes to get to certain woods ..I have very basic but good kit ..my son loves the adventure and tells his young friends who in turn pester their dads to take them lol...I work.but money is still short...and to me bushcraft is about freedom and should not be over priced so that only the elite can learn..I can thanks to the net..learn what I may need to know..or read a book.or ask in a forum..lol
POINT BEING...
No petrol...just muscle powered push bikes.
Son gets to learn bushcraft..then tells friends who get interested..maybe a few seeds take root
Not a GUCCI kind of kit guy so it costs me hardly anything to do something I enjoy.

[exaem]

I agree that mountain biking is getting bigger, this is also pretty annoying. The majority of mountain bikers do trash nature and do make trails that were never there. However, the majority of bushcrafters leave no trace that they were ever there, following the code that many campers believe in. It seems odd to me that many privately owned forests will allow MTBing but will not allow wild camping or stealth camping, even though the majority of wild campers take care of the nature around them.

[Roadkillphil]

We must be careful of two things here, the first is stereotyping. I personally haven't seen that much of an impact on the countryside from mountain bikes, whereas every woodland I have visited has fire pits/scars, bags of rubbish, old knackered tents. It would be very easy for other woodland users, including mountain bikers to get a rant on about how Nobody should be allowed to camp in the woods because of the mess they make. The way humans tend to stereotype means that LNT bushcraft folk will get tarred with the same brush. Same as the way that All mountain bikers, according to the opinions on this thread are disrespectful tearaways that need banning from the countryside to make way for our peace and quiet.
Personally, I feel resources like public access to woodland should be used and respected by all and to target a specific user group as the bad guys is a bit off.
As for bikers being allowed to bike and campers not being allowed to camp... Has this ever stopped anyone camping? Not me ;)

The second thing to be careful of here is that this thread has gone massively off topic..... :D

Cheers

Phil

[Kernowek Scouser]

In my experience, down here on Cornwall's toe, mountain bikers tend to stick to the 'roads' and give the woodland/moorland a miss, so I have no issues with them.

The people who do upset me are the sneaky doggers. There is nothing worse when you are scouting for a sneaky overnight site, than to come across (not literally) two folks as old as your parents, starkers demonstrating position no 47 from the Good Sex Guide.

It is the kind of sight that can put you off your pasty (for an hour) and what do you say "Good technique you have there, but you might want to think about putting your back into it a bit more" ?!?

Get a tent people (or at least a tarp).

:D

[Martin]

In my experience, down here on Cornwall's toe, mountain bikers tend to stick to the 'roads' and give the woodland/moorland a miss, so I have no issues with them.

The people who do upset me are the sneaky doggers. There is nothing worse when you are scouting for a sneaky overnight site, than to come across (not literally) two folks as old as your parents, starkers demonstrating position no 47 from the Good Sex Guide.

It is the kind of sight that can put you off your pasty (for an hour) and what do you say "Good technique you have there, but you might want to think about putting your back into it a bit more" ?!?

Get a tent people (or at least a tarp).

:D

Don't be daft!! Dogging has taken over from wrestling as Cornwall's national sport.

Make love not war. ;)

Martin

[Metal mug]

Don't be daft!! Dogging has taken over from wrestling as Cornwall's national sport.

Make love not war. ;)

Martin:D Note to self: Move to Cornwall. ;)

[m0txr]

Ohh, and there was me thinking the dog inn car park was a place at the back of the local pub. :ashamed: