Bow Drill Video

[AdrianRose]

Hi there folks,

I thought that I would share my latest video here. I have been studying bushcraft for half my life (probably around 20 years now), but I have never gotten around to trying the bow drill friction fire lighting technique.

So here follows a video of my attempts, it was when all is said and done not a success. However, I think that it was important enough to show our failures as well as our successes so as to give the new generation of bushcrafters a true idea of what happens in the real world.

There are far too many arm chair bushcraft gods out there who can edit a video to make themselves look great or who can type a great argument but can't actually achieve much when in the real world.

All the best

Ade


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZ1-A0WObz8

[aman]

Thanks Adrian
I had a go at this the other day and came home really disheartened because I failed to get an ember but you have shown me that it is not a simple thing and if it was that easy then matches would never have been invented.

To paraphrase JFK "We choose to go to the woods. We choose to go to the wood in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard. . . ."

[ian c]

Hi Ade thank you for posting this im glad that im not the only one that found it difficult to use a bow drill, it took me quite a few attempts to get a decent ember in fact more than i care to remember.

[Silverback]

Excellent video Ade, thanks for sharing. Nice site too by the way

[Hushwing]

Hi Ade - totally agree that we can only learn from mistakes and adaptations. Have only managed to get a full fire from bow and drill twice (and have tried many times at events etc,). What it has shown me more than any other activity is that, if you 'demo' this at a public event, folk actually enjoy watching you working hard and if you succeed all the better. Aye we all love to watch somebody else working!

I also find it an activity that there are more variations on advice as to which wood to use, the shape of the drill, how to have a smooth drill head to ensure success, how to roughen it to ensure success, the size of bow to use, the size not to use, how to wrap the string, etc. I think each person has their preferred method and it takes time to find what works for you. Well that's my excuse! ( I would ask someone to supply the definitive advice but seems again depend on who you ask!!) :o

[Martin]

Ask Ashley. He has consistently produced an ember in under 10 seconds with the bow drill and, famously on one occasion, in seven seconds. :)

I've only tried to do this once and eventually got an ember which I managed to get a flame from. It's damn hard work and not for me I'm afraid. :(

Martin

[aman]

So what woods should you use?

I thought you had to use a soft and a hard wood but I just read in the ray mears book that the spindle and the hearth should be the same wood

[AdrianRose]

Thanks for all the positive comments chaps, it's very much appreciated.

I'm sure that with practice I will get there. It's certainly not going to be my favoured choice of fire lighting but I guess in my head it's one of those personal challenges now.

Ade.

[AdrianRose]

Excellent video Ade, thanks for sharing. Nice site too by the way

Thanks Sapper. Very kind of you to say do.

The website has only been up for a couple of weeks and there is still masses to upload yet but please stick with it.

Cheers
Ade.

[luresalive]

Brother, well done for having the guts to put out the video, most people only share their successes and brag about how easy it is to do the firebow. It is by far and away my least favourite method of procuring fire but it seems you can't be a bushcrafter unless you do it, (as if thats all bushcraft is about!!!).I have done it quite a few times, as unfortunately on any course I have been on or with people I've been out with, this technique seems to get rammed down your neck and I grew very very sick of it. About 2 months ago I set out to do it from scratch,made my own cordage and cut and prepped everything on the day,it took 24 attempts and 4 and 1/2 hours experimenting with different woods before I got it, not a pleasant experience at all..I'll stick to my flint and steel!

[AdrianRose]

Thank you so much Luresalive. I am so happy that this video has been accepted in the same spirit that it was meant.

Ade.

[Silverback]

Thanks Sapper. Very kind of you to say do.

The website has only been up for a couple of weeks and there is still masses to upload yet but please stick with it.


Dont worry I will. Nice location too, wouldnt mind a visit if you're up for sharing, I could have a try at bow drill too

[Kernowek Scouser]

The thing I like about your videos fella is they are always well presented, very informative and ego free.

And I can only admire the honesty of this latest video, like others have said it takes balls to share your failures as well as your successes (and to be fair, it did look like hard work) so kudos to you fella :D

I am sure, with practice, effort (and a bit of luck) you'll make fire soon enough.

Keep up the good work T^

Your new website looks grand too fella, added to my bushy bookmarks :)

[Hushwing]

So what woods should you use?

I thought you had to use a soft and a hard wood but I just read in the ray mears book that the spindle and the hearth should be the same wood

Exactly what I was meaning - not one source seems to really agree.

Could we make a list on the site of 1.methods and/or 2. wood for spindle and 3. wood for hearth that have worked for folk or have been seen working by folk (some still prefer to watch!) - would be a great resource that all can try and then affirm work! cheers. (it'll stop me skiving off the paperwork I need to do this morning in looking for the answer...)

[Hushwing]

Meant to say - Sorry if the above list has been done and is already posted on the site.

anyway..

I found these links whilst googling for some info I had seen before. These give some details; relevant or otherwise. But main mesaage is that have a good seasoned and dried wood for the hearth and that willow is pretty good. So is sycamore but it isn't a robust kit ie wears out quickly. Some have said that Lime as the hearth is good others have said they have failed using it. Lots have said that an Ivy board (if properly dried) is very good also.

---

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAb-3Cb5Ttw

mmm, don't recognise this chap!!
---
http://www.bushcraft.ridgeonnet.com/bowdrill%20tutorial.htm - good link - goes through the process he's used, and the materials are listed also.
---
There are a lot of links from other sites to this Wild Wood Survival site (N American site and so info is related to woods from there but might give some clues to us across the pond) and the following pages:
http://www.wildwoodsurvival.com/survival/fire/bowdrill/storm_inquiry/index.html - the guy has actually worked out an index system to test wood combinations
http://www.wildwoodsurvival.com/survival/fire/materials/storm/preferredmaterials1.html - list of preferred materials
http://www.wildwoodsurvival.com/survival/fire/bowdrill/pmoc/basicbowdrill.html and http://www.wildwoodsurvival.com/survival/fire/bowdrill/pmoc/advancedbowdrill.html -
good info on what the ember dust might be telling you ie why you have failed or succeeded.
---
Quote from a survivalist forum asking what materials to use
Non resinous!
The best woods are the ones that grow really close to water they have the highest percentage of water to resin ratio therefore dry out better. this is why willow, cotton wood, cypress, and the like work. Wood that grows near water has a much lower in sectional density because of the abundance of water vice versa and therefore have lower ignition temperatures! Look for woods that only grow near water! Good luck
---
http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48379 - message board from another UK forum - but halfway down there is a list of tried combinations

anyhoooo - have to go and do this paperwork :zombie-fighting:

[Ashley Cawley]

Brill video Adrian it is important for people to realise it doesn't happen first time* and you showed that well. RE most people sharing their success through online videos, I wouldn't be so harsh to think it's purely down to people just wanting to show their successes for egos etc. but there's also a certain element of trying to please viewers aswell, I know when I first started making videos and learning skills I thought people wouldn't want to watch me for ages failing because it's not as interesting as the one that worked, it was very much an experience of me learning to do a new skill and then being able to produce a short video tutorial to try and pass that on. In the video I made a few years ago I tried to make a point of "it doesn't happen first time".


Ask Ashley. He has consistently produced an ember in under 10 seconds with the bow drill and, famously on one occasion, in seven seconds. :) ..Lots of stopping, thinking and understanding what to change got me to that position. Experience through lots of practice but it's important sometimes not just to persevere and try harder (because you could have some element of the technique wrong & could be burning yourself out) stopping, think and often advice there & then from someone else is extremely helpful if they're more experienced at it. There is nothing like the experience of someone else whispered in your ear at the right moment; "apply more downward pressure", "more speed", "lock your arm into your leg" someone else observing gets a different perspective on your posture and technique and believe me when your going ten to the dozen working hard that's when your technique slips and you often don't realise it. The passing on of this ancient skill from person to person is the traditional way, a living unbroken link to our ancestors passing that knowledge on from one man to the next so don't avoid it and think you can learn it all from a book folks, Ade did the right thing of seeking advice, continue to seek more aswell from as many who are willing to passon these skills.

I'll give a few recommendations in a bit.


RE the 7 & 10sec embers; obviously it's not all about speed, consistency and confidence in your own ability would be better that speed. It was actually Justin who was keen to race and see who could get the fastest ember, he reconed one day that he got a sub-10 second ember and wanted to have a bow-drill race, at that time I didn't even think a sub-10 second ember was possible! I put off this race for many weeks but when he finally nailed me down to give it a go along side him I achieved a 7 second ember (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RexhV_fJtH4), which like I say I didn't think was possible at the time! - That'll teach him for wanting to race :p

You can only go that fast when you know you've got everything weighed off - and it's still not something I'd recommend.


Brother, well done for having the guts to put out the video, most people only share their successes and brag about how easy it is to do the firebow...Hear, hear... it's not easy, some might make it look so but that doesn't mean it is!


..About 2 months ago I set out to do it from scratch,made my own cordage and cut and prepped everything on the day,it took 24 attempts and 4 and 1/2 hours experimenting with different woods before I got it...Wow! What an achievement, well done. That is something I have never done; made my own cordage to produce a working set, something I think you've inspired me to try :)


... The website has only been up for a couple of weeks and there is still masses to upload yet but please stick with it..Ade - I've been to it, looks great - you should put a link to it in your signature.

T^


* Unless your Matt Julian!

[Ashley Cawley]

As for bow-drill advice, I've learnt quite a bit more about the bowdrill since my last video a few years ago (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAb-3Cb5Ttw), but I would reiterate a few points from the video:



Position is crucial - Before you even start drilling learn the correct posture and how to lock your arm against your shin see my video above to see that illustrated. I have seen Bear Grylls balls this part up royally and fake an ember ---> That's a lot worse than normal folk posting their success videos online if you ask me!




Make sure you've got the right woods - There's tons of recommended woods throughout books & online so I won't go through them all, what I will do is give you my favourite combo at the moment; Ivy-wood hearth board and hazel drill, I find this works well, but still there are a lot of combos I haven't yet tried.




Understand the friction & forces - Think about minimising the friction at the top (where you don't want it - on the bearing block) and maximise the friction at the bottom where you do want it. So a point on the top and rounder/flatter on the bottom. Rough up the socket and drill bottom from time to time to maxmise friction and wood grinding, what you don't want are polished smooth surfaces forming in the socket and on the drill end, this will minimise the friction & wood-char produced, sometimes this problem can produce the squeaking you hear but that's not the only thing that can do that. Improve this and you'll improve the effort required and increase your chances. My secret for this? Limpet shells! - I know of at least two Bushcraft schools who have taken my advice on this (one being one of the largest in the UK) and using Limpet shells for your bearing block. I heard a comment from another Bushcraft School the other day which made me chuckle; they gave up using a Limpet shell because it got too hot - well yes one would, so here's the secret about Limpets that I spent years developing: use two! :rolleye: One on top of the other is enough of a buffer & air gap to dissipate the heat ;) One large Bushcraft school even had me out on the beach this week collecting 60 Limpet shells for them, so if you're at the Bushcraft Show this year learning the bow-drill chances are the Limpet shell your using was collected by me.




If you're failing or something doesn't seem quite right, Stop and think - cool off and have a look at your set, perhaps have a brew and think about what might have been going wrong or what could be improved in the set. Sometimes it's really not you do something wrong and it can just require quite a minor tweak in the set to get things going properly. Persevering sometimes when something isn't working will just burn you out. It's hard to get-over a perfect set through words, you need to be there really to show someone what is the perfect socket, distance away from the edge, thickness drill, all of it there is too much for static words.




Get oxygen to your ember - I have seen folk get an ember but then have it starve itself of oxygen because they've left it in the socket/notch too long. Whilst I agree once you have an ember you don't need to panic, but I would recommend simply moving the board away fairly soon after so that the ember isn't stifled by the sides and surrounding wood-char & starve itself of oxygen. Once you've got it out of the notch it can often sit happily for a few minutes, obviously shield it from excessive wind & you can add to it small amounts of wood char that might be on your board. As for removing the ember from the notch successfully, I would advise against using the tip of your knife on the wood-char as shown in Ade's video but rather just tap the hearth-board gently with either your knife spine or even better your drill - saves you getting out a sharp & forgetting about in the excitement. I find tapping frees up the wood-char from the notch nicely, this then let's a good flow of oxygen to the ember and could be just exactly what it needed at that crucial time to continue burning. This is one of those tips I've learnt since I made my video and of course it shows the ember in the notch for a while, sometimes it will burn in there just fine and you can hear it was a windy day so would have helped.



I am no expert, I am a student as much a teacher, take from my advice what you will, I give it freely and only wish I could show you in person.

:campfire:

Good luck and have fun trying.

[Ashley Cawley]

I was out teaching my younger brother the bow-drill just the other day, it wasn't really a serious attempt to teach him but just showing him the basics etc, you can see him trying in this vid...




https://vimeo.com/41709210

[Kernowek Scouser]

As for bow-drill advice, I've learnt quite a bit more about the bowdrill since my last video a few years ago (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAb-3Cb5Ttw), but I would reiterate a few points from the video:



Position is crucial - Before you even start drilling learn the correct posture and how to lock your arm against your shin see my video above to see that illustrated. I have seen Bear Grylls balls this part up royally and fake an ember ---> That's a lot worse than normal folk posting their success videos online if you ask me!




Make sure you've got the right woods - There's tons of recommended woods throughout books & online so I won't go through them all, what I will do is give you my favourite combo at the moment; Ivy-wood hearth board and hazel drill, I find this works well, but still there are a lot of combos I haven't yet tried.




Understand the friction & forces - Think about minimising the friction at the top (where you don't want it - on the bearing block) and maximise the friction at the bottom where you do want it. So a point on the top and rounder/flatter on the bottom. Rough up the socket and drill bottom from time to time to maxmise friction and wood grinding, what you don't want are polished smooth surfaces forming in the socket and on the drill end, this will minimise the friction & wood-char produced, sometimes this problem can produce the squeaking you hear but that's not the only thing that can do that. Improve this and you'll improve the effort required and increase your chances. My secret for this? Limpet shells! - I know of at least two Bushcraft schools who have taken my advice on this (one being one of the largest in the UK) and using Limpet shells for your bearing block. I heard a comment from another Bushcraft School the other day which made me chuckle; they gave up using a Limpet shell because it got too hot - well yes one would, so here's the secret about Limpets that I spent years developing: use two! :rolleye: One on top of the other is enough of a buffer & air gap to dissipate the heat ;) One large Bushcraft school even had me out on the beach this week collecting 60 Limpet shells for them, so if you're at the Bushcraft Show this year learning the bow-drill chances are the Limpet shell your using was collected by me.




If you're failing or something doesn't seem quite right, Stop and think - cool off and have a look at your set, perhaps have a brew and think about what might have been going wrong or what could be improved in the set. Sometimes it's really not you do something wrong and it can just require quite a minor tweak in the set to get things going properly. Persevering sometimes when something isn't working will just burn you out. It's hard to get-over a perfect set through words, you need to be there really to show someone what is the perfect socket, distance away from the edge, thickness drill, all of it there is too much for static words.




Get oxygen to your ember - I have seen folk get an ember but then have it starve itself of oxygen because they've left it in the socket/notch too long. Whilst I agree once you have an ember you don't need to panic, but I would recommend simply moving the board away fairly soon after so that the ember isn't stifled by the sides and surrounding wood-char & starve itself of oxygen. Once you've got it out of the notch it can often sit happily for a few minutes, obviously shield it from excessive wind & you can add to it small amounts of wood char that might be on your board. As for removing the ember from the notch successfully, I would advise against using the tip of your knife on the wood-char as shown in Ade's video but rather just tap the hearth-board gently with either your knife spine or even better your drill - saves you getting out a sharp & forgetting about in the excitement. I find tapping frees up the wood-char from the notch nicely, this then let's a good flow of oxygen to the ember and could be just exactly what it needed at that crucial time to continue burning. This is one of those tips I've learnt since I made my video and of course it shows the ember in the notch for a while, sometimes it will burn in there just fine and you can hear it was a windy day so would have helped.



I am no expert, I am a student as much a teacher, take from my advice what you will, I give it freely and only wish I could show you in person.

:campfire:

Good luck and have fun trying.

Posts like this, wherein knowledge is shared freely, are the main reason I spend most of the time I am online browsing though this excellent forum (well that and pictures of shiny kit:ashamed:).

Fair play to both of you T^

[Hushwing]

Posts like this, wherein knowledge is shared freely, are the main reason I spend most of the time I am online browsing though this excellent forum (well that and pictures of shiny kit:ashamed:).

Fair play to both of you T^

Here, here - helps give a lotuvva new knowledge - the encouragement to try new things - and also helps build your own confidence in what you are able to do quite well (but hadn't realised).

cheers

[Ashley Cawley]

Kernowek Scouser - :o



... also helps build your own confidence in what you are able to do quite well (but hadn't realised)... Absolutely! Toward the end of Ade's video he said he can't do it - you certainly can mate! You're a perfectly able chap and you'll crack it, hopefully some of my advice will be useful to you.


Funnily enough I'm off camping today with RoadKillPhil & Franko this morning, one of the things we're planning to do is practice fire by friction, they haven't created a bowdrill ember yet but they will at some point, I'll try to record some footage of them if I can.

[MikeWilkinson]

Excellent advice there Ash.

All I can say is it took me a few months to get it cracked and even now I don't always manage to get an ember first time. I occasionally end up throwing away hearth and drill as sometimes it just doesn't want to happen, but with a new set it does! Keep trying, and learn from your failures.

Hopefully if we get a little meet sorted out we can get some time to practice.

Mike

[Hushwing]

Make sure you've got the right woods - There's tons of recommended woods throughout books & online so I won't go through them all, what I will do is give you my favourite combo at the moment; Ivy-wood hearth board and hazel drill, I find this works well, but still there are a lot of combos I haven't yet tried.

I know that there are various woods listed in books etc etc but quite often its not clear if its for the hearth, drill or both. Could we compile a list that folk have had success with - am prepared to summarise this in a spreadsheet or whatever. Would help us newbies. But appreciate that's not the complete picture so thanks for the other helpful pointers. greatly useful.

[AL...]

This is why I REALY like this fourm
The way folks help one another out . and the lack of pretence .. :)
Great thread Thanks for sharing Lads

Cheers
AL

[AdrianRose]

Just wanted to say a huge thank you to everybody who has replied, commented and offered their suggestions/experiences in relation to my bowdrill video. It is certainly not something that I will walk away from but will rather continue to practice and one day master - if at all possible lol

cheers for now
Ade

[MikeWilkinson]

Hi Hushwing,
I'm by no means an expert but from my experiance if your just starting out with the whole Bow drill fire lighting method then I would suggest the following combos:-

Lime Hearth and Drill - one of the easier starting combos
Lime Hearth and Hazel Drill - faster than Lime on Lime once you have the technique worked out.
Lime Hearth and Willow Drill - a little bit harder than hazel on lime

Willow Hearth and Hazel Drill - starting to get a little more complicated, more attention required to the type of wood powder your getting and playng around with pressure on drill.
Willow Hearth and Willow Drill- again technique needs to be a little more refined.

Hazel Hearth and Hazel Drill - I find this combo quite knackering. but do able.

Sycamore Hearth and Hazel Drill - I have mixed success with this combo depending on state of wood.

Hazel as a drill seems to work on most woods, and as Ash has posted it works really well with ivy.

Mike

[Doc Goodson]

This is the one thing that plagues my thoughts day and night. I can get lots of smoke but no ember, even after watching the video Ashley made . I guess I'll just keep trying till I get it. Hopefully it will be sooner than later I've already went through 3 hearths