It Can Even Go Wrong For The Experienced

[Chubbs]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-19404497

Glad it all turned out well for them.

[Silverback]

Like how 'walked into the BBC crew' turns into 'found by' and when i did my training and assessments there over the years I'm sure there were more than one Brecon Beacon...... LOL

Joking aside, glad everything turned out ok and a special big it up to the Search Dogs and People of the South Wales MRT's. Once again proving that 'Those that can....do. Those that can do more - volunteer'

[moontanboy]

Looks like a good lesson about keeping a survival tin and basic rations in the pockets of your combats if you lose your rucksack.
Well done to the guys out looking for him though.

[comanighttrain]

Looks like he took a pretty heavy knock... guy looks beat up!

Good that he got out of it. Makes me want to return to my habit of keeping stuff on my belt!

[JonnyP]

Like how 'walked into the BBC crew' turns into 'found by' and when i did my training and assessments there over the years I'm sure there were more than one Brecon Beacon...... LOL

Joking aside, glad everything turned out ok and a special big it up to the Search Dogs and People of the South Wales MRT's. Once again proving that 'Those that can....do. Those that can do more - volunteer'

Yes, good old BBC found him lol..

"Those that can....do. Those that can do more - volunteer" Too right

[Tony1948]

Wot happoned to the other 4 guys?whernt mutch of a gide if he went walk about and fell into a river that far out of ear shot that the other could'ant hear him.A bit more to it me thinks.Well done all the guys that were looking for him.

[schooner]

Funny you should say that Tony http://www.yourthurrock.com/2012/08/29/former-thurrock-boxer-found-alive-after-massive-mountain-rescue-mission/

Edited to add: Check out some of the comments.

[comanighttrain]

Very interesting! I'm certainly a lot more skeptical about it now.

[AL...]

Jings!!! they fair tore into the lad!

Cheers
AL

[jbrown14]

To be fair, I haven't watched the video, but I did read some of the offending comments, so I will say this: accidents will happen to the most experienced and well-prepared among us. Whether this happened out of stupidity or just a misstep is something that only Mr. Walker can know.

I know a man from Canada who backpacks here in the Adirondacks of New York who has been hiking and doing trail restoration work in those mountains longer than I've been alive. When out on a day-hike, he lost focus for a moment, misstepped and plunged off a short cliff into some jagged rocks. He was found a day or two later by other hikers (or maybe walked himself out, I don't remember right now...) either way, he took over a year to recover from his injuries.

Accidents happen.

Josh

[Silverback]

Accidents happen.

Josh

Yup, I have been stretchered from a hill myself turned on my ankle whilst on a training exercise and it was a suspected fracture, turned out to be ligament damage still had me on crutches for 4 weeks though.

However to not be found by 4 Mountain Rescue Teams, 4 air scenting search dogs and various FLIR equipped air assets when the search managers have a definite point last seen.....mmm. Normally those wanting to be found WILL be found very quickly with those sort of assets, particularly here in the UK.

Those that dont want to be found are the tricky ones

[comanighttrain]

Don't wanna be found? Like runaways?

[Pryderi]

Hmm if he was walking where I think he was (which it looks like from the map) methinks there is a bit of hyperbole going on here.
I used to walk there with my mate and his family including his 60 year old mother who was recovering from cancer.

[Silverback]

Don't wanna be found? Like runaways?

Yes, and despondents....suicidal people, people who like to evade capture for the hell of it or to prolong the rescue, just to be rescued. People with learning difficulties, the vulnerable. Increasingly MRTs are called to these kind of jobs

[GalaxyRider]

It looks a bit odd to me.

On a related note I do get annoyed when people say they are ex-forces and then think they are somehow perfectly qualified to teach 'survival' techniques by dint of their two years in the RAPC! And why on earth did the people of Romford follow him to his survival camp? Surely Thetford Forest was much closer? Or Lakeside?

Anyway, I'm glad he's OK, maybe in future he will plan ahead a bit more than this time.

[AdrianRose]

It looks a bit odd to me.

On a related note I do get annoyed when people say they are ex-forces and then think they are somehow perfectly qualified to teach 'survival' techniques by dint of their two years in the RAPC! And why on earth did the people of Romford follow him to his survival camp? Surely Thetford Forest was much closer? Or Lakeside?

Anyway, I'm glad he's OK, maybe in future he will plan ahead a bit more than this time.

I agree with you 100% here buddy. I went bushcrafting many years ago with a fella who was very keen on reminding me that he was ex-military.
After hearing him prattle on for hours about all his "tours of duty" he finally got so steaming drunk (as a side note - I hate drunk bushcrafters!!) he told me what his "specialist function" was in the army......

Catering corps!!

His Rambo'esque patter seemed to diminish the next day after the sudden realisation of how several units of falling down water can make the truth come out.

Ade.

[Chubbs]

And it happens again. This time their map was a guidebook.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-19456070

How stupid can people be.

[JonnyP]

Stupid people..!
Sorry that a rescuer suffered a broken leg. I hope those rescued feel sorry too, but somehow I doubt it..


And it happens again. This time their map was a guidebook.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-19456070

How stupid can people be.

[AL...]

Must have been the "FOOL" moon that brought them out!

Cheers
AL

[Silverback]

Turned one round today trying to get onto the hill in normal suit trousers and a collared shirt, no coat or anything else. He ignored us and continued climbing up the path. He realised his mistake when he saw lots of other walkers coming in the opposite direction it similar more robust walking attire.

Whilst it has been warm here today 600m ASL can get chilly in a 20mph wind and it rained more than once.

[FishyFolk]

You've seen the video I have on my YT channel. "The Mountain". When I did that walk, I met a man on top of the pass where it was still snow, wearing shorts and a t-shirt. He was soaking wet with the rain, and shivering badly. And had nothing at all with him. His somewhat better clad (niot by much) firnd was with him so, and they where on their way down. So they should be okay as long as they kept moving. There was no wind. Or I would probably have had to put him in my Jerven bag and call a rescue team.

And I met the same man again when I made my latest video, dressed the same way, on his way up into the hills....this time alone. But he did have a small back pack with him this time. I actually asked him, and he confirmed it...so sometimes they do learn...

And then there was this lady up in hills who got lost in the fog...using her mobile phone GPS with google maps only installed to navigate in fog as thick as soup. It had been foggy the same way the day before, and the forecast said that day would be the same...but into the hills she went...the fog started at 200 meters above sea level, the mountain platau is at 500- 600 meters...

[Silverback]

the man in question was the very slow back marker in a party of 4 none of whom were dressed for the inclement weather. We watched them through binos as he was adamant he was going to continue although he admitted he wasnt dressed for the occasion, they pressed on towards the summit but at about 500m ASL and with a particularly nasty weather front coming in they turned round.

Once again the front markers screamed off letting the man trail up to a Km behind at one point, by the time he arrived at the road head he was limping.... This was a family for petes sake the woman who I may wrongly have assumed was the mrs was clad in a goretex jacket the other 3 various items of street attire. On a notorious patch of ground in our area in fact 2 rescues had happened on the same patch in the last month...madness !!

[SimonB]

A few wise words from my RSM which I am sure you will agree with Sapper..

" You can't educate Pork, and you can't polish a turd"...

A couple of months back, I was out doing a small recce for a walk in Edale, pitting my problems with Jacobs ladder...
On the way back, saw a lot of Asian men heading towards jacobs, dressed in normal everyday clothes and shoes..... I said at the time to my oppo they are asking for trouble... The peaks are no place to be ill equipped, no matter what the weather...... I know from experience how it can turn in the blink of an eye.... Saw a few families too, with kids in wellies and macs, dad in relatively good outdoor gear, and mum in jeans, t-shirt and strappy sandals.... The mind boggles as to their mentality..

[GalaxyRider]

A few wise words from my RSM which I am sure you will agree with Sapper..

" You can't educate Pork, and you can't polish a turd"...

A couple of months back, I was out doing a small recce for a walk in Edale, pitting my problems with Jacobs ladder...
On the way back, saw a lot of Asian men heading towards jacobs, dressed in normal everyday clothes and shoes..... I said at the time to my oppo they are asking for trouble... The peaks are no place to be ill equipped, no matter what the weather...... I know from experience how it can turn in the blink of an eye.... Saw a few families too, with kids in wellies and macs, dad in relatively good outdoor gear, and mum in jeans, t-shirt and strappy sandals.... The mind boggles as to their mentality..

I don't agree with your RSM. It is actually possible to educate pigs to carry out tasks.


As for people being dressed appropriately, I am not entirely convinced you are right on that. Not enough people, in my opinion, go out on the hills, and if we start to say that the hills are a deadly place, only suitable for experienced and well equipped people I think the Great Outdoors would be a lesser place. Maybe people who go out for walks in attire we would not are merely 'dipping a toe' in the outdoors. Next time they come back and go further, get better equipped, learn navigation, it's a drip feeding process. I think it also has to be remembered that being well equipped is not the key, knowing what to do is the key. I regularly take part in Mountain Marathons, what I take with me would be viewed with wild eyed horror on here, massively under-prepared you would all think. I know what to do though. Look at Mallory, maybe to the top of Everest in a nice tweed jacket, some wooly undies and a stout pair of boots that were nothing compared to my Scarpas!

It's easy to be critical, maybe better to stop and offer to go with them? The subject of the first post in this thread is different though. He had set himself up as a Survival Instructor, but is clearly a numpty dressed in combats!

[Silverback]

I regularly take part in Mountain Marathons, what I take with me would be viewed with wild eyed horror on here, massively under-prepared you would all think.

All, now theres a bit of a sweeping statement. I for one would not view you with horror. If i saw you up on Bleaklow today in Shirt and Slacks or trying to do the CMD in winter without an ice axe then maybe......

I have taken part in rescues for the well prepared, as well as the poorly prepared. The experienced and those lacking in experience, theres no accounting for bad luck.....like the fell runners we pick up because of injury, or those caught out by bad weather, being caught out by unexpected darkness now that is a bit daft and has a simple remedy.

I always think of the 'there but for the grace of god' line too, remembering not to criticise too harshly because I have been there too, however there are the down right ridiculous who put other lives at risk because of their stupidity! Not lack of gear or knowledge.

There have been many campaigns by many SAR groups to educate people about the dangers faced by weather, mountains, sea... et al but some just don't seem to get it

[Silverback]

A few wise words from my RSM which I am sure you will agree with Sapper..


RSM - Really Scary Monster, and I don't agree with him no. Its a failing in the staff if the soldiers don't get it

[GalaxyRider]

A few wise words from my RSM which I am sure you will agree with Sapper..

" You can't educate Pork, and you can't polish a turd"...

A couple of months back, I was out doing a small recce for a walk in Edale, pitting my problems with Jacobs ladder...
On the way back, saw a lot of Asian men heading towards jacobs, dressed in normal everyday clothes and shoes..... I said at the time to my oppo they are asking for trouble... The peaks are no place to be ill equipped, no matter what the weather...... I know from experience how it can turn in the blink of an eye.... Saw a few families too, with kids in wellies and macs, dad in relatively good outdoor gear, and mum in jeans, t-shirt and strappy sandals.... The mind boggles as to their mentality..

The more I think about it, the more I think your RSM was a fool, it's an easy cop-out.

I have also been re-reading your post, and the implication from the Really Stupid Muppet quote that the people you met were uneducatable as to the 'Ways of The Hills'. What advice did you give them? What welcoming nuggets of your hard-earned wisdom did you impart? Did you even smile and say hello? Or did you just walk on quoting nonsense from a middle aged soldier who had swallowed all he had been told wholesale due to a lack of free-thinking ability?

Sapper- sorry, should have said 'some'

[Silverback]

The peaks are no place to be ill equipped, no matter what the weather...... I know from experience how it can turn in the blink of an eye.... Saw a few families too, with kids in wellies and macs, dad in relatively good outdoor gear, and mum in jeans, t-shirt and strappy sandals....

The incident lists of the 7 PDMRO MRT's are no stranger to people fitting this 'stereotype'. They don't know any better, there has been an education 'programme' by MRT's across the country but some just don't get it. Although i can guarantee they are educated on the walk back down unless injured of course.

Most make it onto the edge path of Kinder and go 'oh poop'' turn round and come back again. At the very worst they get a bit wet. Sadly others don't, but still make their way off and some of them add to the statistics..and as i said before some are just unlucky...99.99% get away with it.

Most go oh poop this walking thing is harder than it looks I'll give up. Others are enthused and come back, better equipped, better trained, and better able to cope.....thats how some of us even came to be in MR in the first place...

We need to educate the masses, the govt is encouraging people to get out and exercise, walking is pleasant and free....we don't need insurance, charging for rescue, mountain police...just maybe cheaper fuel, VAT free kit and a programme of education about the hills, it worked for Fred and Petunia in the 70's and 80's

[Silverback]

Sapper- sorry, should have said 'some'

Dont be sorry........just dont do it again ;);)

Not all RSM's are tossers either I know a couple of cracking ones

[GalaxyRider]

Dont be sorry........just dont do it again ;);)

Not all RSM's are tossers either I know a couple of cracking ones

Now theres a bit of a sweeping statement. I didn't say that all RSMs were tossers, just his! ;)

Blimey, if I had said they all were then my mate Paul (or W.O. 1 Paul) would be most annoyed!

[Silverback]

Now theres a bit of a sweeping statement. I didn't say that all RSMs were tossers, just his! ;)

Blimey, if I had said they all were then my mate Paul (or W.O. 1 Paul) would be most annoyed!

Lol I have a soft spot for a couple too

[andy202wr]

They may have ripped into him but he gave as good back.