What Bushcraft is not about: Litter

[Oakenwise]

I've come back from an overnight camping trip to the Loch Lomond and the Trossachs NP. Great time, actually drove to the top of Lomond, pretty much. We camped at Loch Drunkie.

Sometimes I feel like the outdoors should be restricted to all but the people who actually care about the environment and nature in general. Chavs, neds, louts, juveniles (whatever you want to call them, really) should be forced to stay in their homes.

When I arrived at camp I was greeted by the unwholesome sight of beer cans and bottles. I'm actually against drink in general, so that made it even worse. Camping, to me, isn't about drinking and making a fool of yourself so that, in the end, you become so dazed you leave your mess in every corner. No, it's about sitting on the bank of a Loch listening to instrumental music and enjoying the view. That's what I did anyway.

http://i.imgur.com/kd7XU.jpg

Not only did we leave our Trossachs/Loch Drunkie campsite spotless, I went through the effort of cleaning up the infectious mess that other people left.

"If you can look back and see remains of your campsite when you have packed up to leave, then you have no right to call yourself a real bushcrafter."

[paulthefish2009]

It's just a sad fact of modern life i'm afraid,makes me sick too. Any way glad you had a good time,did you get to use your new knife? Paul

[Oakenwise]

It's just a sad fact of modern life i'm afraid,makes me sick too. Any way glad you had a good time,did you get to use your new knife? Paul
Indeed.

No I didn't, I'm afraid. I don't know why but everytime I go out camping it turns out that I spend most of the day going to see different places. By the time we got back it was getting dark quick.

As a complete newbie to Bushcraft, and if I'm being brutally honest, I haven't crafted a single thing yet, nor foraged or lit fire. I told myself that I'd finally start doing all that at camp, finally start making stuff, but that wasn't the case again.

I could've foraged, but there were no berries or flowers. Even if there were, I wouldn't know what I was picking.

I could've lit fire, but I'm still unsure about the different methods. I don't have a Ferrorod
yet, and I don't think there was sufficient tinder, anyway.

I could've... You get my point.

The least I could've done, now that I think about it, was carve my first natural walking stick. I didn't even think to do that!

Honestly, I think the main reason that I haven't started actually practicing Bushcraft is become the outdoors are still new to me. How I wish I lived near the woods. Going out to camp like that is the only chance I get, and I don't want to make it a regular thing so nature becomes the norm.

[comanighttrain]

Hey Oaky,

Yeah there's a lot of that... when you get some more experience you can start moving into more remote places where you won't see so much trash.

Also there is a good tinder you can find around in a lot of places. It's like a green hair-like substance usually draped on the branches of spruce/pine. No idea what it's called but it's fine fibers catch a spark quite well!

[FishyFolk]

It can get a little overwhelming once you are out there.

But just to one thing at a time. I enjoy the days out best when I can just do what ever occurs to me right there and then. If not, it gets to be a chore.
As for fire lighting. A Bic ligher is a perfectly fine tool for a bush crafter to light a fire. A Chimpanzee can be trained to produce a flame. The difficulty is a to build a
sustainable fire that won't putter out 2 minutes after it's lit. Specially here in the wet parts of Europe.

The only reason I am not using a lighter (it would be soooo much easier), is that using a fire steel is so much more fun!
If you ask most bushcafters it's not becouse that have to, that things gets done....it's because they eiether can, or they want to learn how...

Good luck :-)

[Oakenwise]

Hey Oaky,

Yeah there's a lot of that... when you get some more experience you can start moving into more remote places where you won't see so much trash.

Also there is a good tinder you can find around in a lot of places. It's like a green hair-like substance usually draped on the branches of spruce/pine. No idea what it's called but it's fine fibers catch a spark quite well!
Yeah, I bet, Comanighttrain. It's only natural that I'll want to go to more remote places as I gain more experience.

Oh I think I saw that substance...

I just realised that the ground might've been littered by very dry Bracken leaves. I am so stupid.

The thing about being such a newbie is that I don't know how to decode the landscape. Watching Ray Mears' series and appreciating all that he's telling me about different plants and wildlife is completley different when you actually go out. I'm not even sure of the primary tree species we camped under. Pine, I think.

Understand?

Edit: I forgot to mention that we weren't near mainland forest. There was a forest but it was up on a ridge near a road. I managed to get up there and have a looked around, but it was a small and largely proccessed area. All the leaves had fallen off the pines so that, in general, the land had not much to give.

Keep in mind that, depressing as it is, my foray into nature only began in the summer of this year, so I haven't had the chance to explore in spring. I'll try going out in winter. I've assured myself already that the spring of 2013 will be an adventurous time for me.

[comanighttrain]

Yeah, I bet, Comanighttrain. It's only natural that I'll want to go to more remote places as I gain more experience.

Oh I think I saw that...

I just realised that the ground might've been littered by very dry Bracken leaves. I am so stupid.

The thing about being such a newbie is that I don't know how to decode the landscape. Watching Ray Mears' series and appreciating all that he's telling me about different plants and wildlife is completley different when you actually go out. I'm not even sure what the primary tree species we camped under. Pine, I think.

Understand?

Oh yeah. I've been into the outdoors for a long time and a lot of it is still a mystery..

Also I had to ask on here for some tree advice... Someone on here told me to look at the needles on the trees. Singles for spruce and pairs for pine I think

[Oakenwise]

Oh yeah. I've been into the outdoors for a long time and a lot of it is still a mystery..

Also I had to ask on here for some tree advice... Someone on here told me to look at the needles on the trees. Singles for spruce and pairs for pine I think

Ah, interesting.

For me, beginning to explore the natural world is like being born again. I have to learn everything. I'm essentially blind when I'm in the outdoors, not to its beauty but to its knowledge.

If you've been out there for a long time and there are still things you don't know, then I have lot to learn, indeed. But that's good.

I think my most immediate practice/challenge will be to see if I can indentify as many trees as I can. I want to be familiar with the things under which I'll spend them most time.

[fish]

i am not condoning littering but is it so different from our paleolithic ancestors? we learn much about theyre hunting and foods from just sutch mess,remember the seashore episode of ray mears when the archeologist showed the 'rubbish 'left by our ancestors at a rock overhang that had been used as a shelter for millenia? i suppose 3000 bc some chap maywell have bemoaned the limped and shelfish shells and moaned about those terrible flint knappers leaving their mess everywhere,but that same mess is our treasure and education today.

just my point of view.




Sent from my imperial66 typewriter using carrier pigeon.

[Oakenwise]

i am not condoning littering but is it so different from our paleolithic ancestors? we learn much about theyre hunting and foods from just sutch mess,remember the seashore episode of ray mears when the archeologist showed the 'rubbish 'left by our ancestors at a rock overhang that had been used as a shelter for millenia? i suppose 3000 bc some chap maywell have bemoaned the limped and shelfish shells and moaned about those terrible flint knappers leaving their mess everywhere,but that same mess is our treasure and education today.

just my point of view.




Sent from my imperial66 typewriter using carrier pigeon.

Yes, but weren't most of those things bio-degradable?

Would you rather see leftover tools and crafts, food and cloth from out ancient ancestors, or aluminium cans full of modern toxic waste?

[fish]

Yes, but weren't most of those things bio-degradable?

Would you rather see leftover tools and crafts, food and cloth from out ancient ancestors, or aluminium cans full of modern toxic waste?

well they may well have left rotting stuff all over the camping grounds too,its just the stuff didn't last in the ground,put it this way ,another hobby of mine is bottle digging,i dig a Victorian rubbish dump in its day probably was an awful sight to behold not to mention smell but now just 100 years later and its now a woodland and all you find is wonderful glass bottles and china.Whilst unsightly now those aluminium tins will soon rot away and one day someone will dig up the bottles and be chuffed to pieces,maybe even make an episode of 'timeteam 3200AD' .

here is one item i found recently,now sits on the mantle piece:

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m92/fishfish_01/allotments/DSC03110.jpg

[Silverback]

Also there is a good tinder you can find around in a lot of places. It's like a green hair-like substance usually draped on the branches of spruce/pine. No idea what it's called but it's fine fibers catch a spark quite well!

old mans beard......http://people.tribe.net/ebbbd130-f6c1-4248-8ee6-55b9555fb24b/blog/16f0e2f5-6b38-49e3-9f6f-e7ed7a322e65

[paulthefish2009]

Fair point Fish,but I know where Oak is coming from,modern litter is such a eye sore compared to say a pile of shells or wood shavings etc. Paul

[Silverback]

modern litter is such a eye sore compared to say a pile of shells or wood shavings etc.

Agreed. Where I live people seem to think its ok to visit the moors then leave behind all sorts, clothes, empty tins, nappies...even tents !!

[FishyFolk]

Agreed. Where I live people seem to think its ok to visit the moors then leave behind all sorts, clothes, empty tins, nappies...even tents !!


Oh yeah, found a whole tent left on one of my fishing marks earlier in the summer. It was there a month later, and if still there next time I come there it gets to be my tent...

[Oakenwise]

I forgot to mention that there were also carvings of names in the trees where we camped. 'Spencer 2011', things like that. How modern and vile...

It's off-topic but since I've already described my camping spot, would you guys mind telling me what species of tree can be seen here?
http://i.imgur.com/7vdZY.jpg

Yet another thing that just didn't look/feel right was this tree. Had someone been stripping a live tree of its bark? There were bits of metal stuck inside the darn thing!
http://i.imgur.com/s59aX.png

I'm making the place sound horrible, but it really wasn't. http://i.imgur.com/JTj8O.jpg

[comanighttrain]

old mans beard......http://people.tribe.net/ebbbd130-f6c1-4248-8ee6-55b9555fb24b/blog/16f0e2f5-6b38-49e3-9f6f-e7ed7a322e65

Ahh good! cheers!

[FishyFolk]

I forgot to mention that there were also carvings of names in the trees where we camped. 'Spencer 2011', things like that. How modern and vile...

It's off-topic but since I've already described my camping spot, would you guys mind telling me what species of tree can be seen here?
http://i.imgur.com/7vdZY.jpg

Yet another thing that just didn't look/feel right was this tree. Had someone been stripping a live tree off its bark? There were bits of metal stuck inside the darn thing!
http://i.imgur.com/s59aX.png

I'm making the place sound horrible, but it really wasn't. http://i.imgur.com/JTj8O.jpg

If I saw that stripped tree I would asume some wild animal had lunch. Just can't think of any critters that would eat pine bark?

Carving names into trees is something that has always been done, and done right the tree will survive, specially spruce/ pine. But I gues that was not the thing done here.
Her ein Scandinavia/Nordic countries its a way to honor our dead. Ancient tradition, still alive in Finland and Karelia. But that is done in or near grave yards.

Trees are very resilient so they can handle it. But I agree that it's rather pointless and rude to do so just for fun.

[Oakenwise]

If I saw that stripped tree I would asume some wild animal had lunch. Just can't think of any critters that would eat pine bark?

Carving names into trees is something that has always been done, and done right the tree will survive, specially spruce/ pine. But I gues that was not the thing done here.
Her ein Scandinavia/Nordic countries its a way to honor our dead. Ancient tradition, still alive in Finland and Karelia. But that is done in or near grave yards.

Trees are very resilient so they can handle it. But I agree that it's rather pointless and rude to do so just for fun.
I understand that it's a tradition that has been done for a very long time, indeed. I agree with one's doing it if one's carving has some profound meaning to it. "Spencer 2011" does not. Honestly, I was tempted to stick a peice of paper on a tree before I left that said something like, "Honour nature by cleaning up your damn mess, kids." I would've but I didn't have any paper...

So those were pine trees?

[Silverback]

So those were pine trees?

They look like spruce to me

http://www.british-trees.com/treeguide/spruces/nhmsys0000461247

[Oakenwise]

They look like spruce to me

http://www.british-trees.com/treeguide/spruces/nhmsys0000461247
Wow, what a brilliant site. So much information. Thanks.

Edit: This image here shows the tree that I meant to be indentified. This was the prime tree of the campsite. I don't think that link mentions anything about red berries. Aren't the red berries a sign of Rowan? Mind you, these berries weren't on all the similar trees. Care to explain?

http://i.imgur.com/IH0Cs.jpg

Edit: Sorry, this is very off-topic.

[Silverback]

would you guys mind telling me what species of tree can be seen here?
http://i.imgur.com/7vdZY.jpg

These are spruce trees this is the pic i was commenting on

I havent seen the other picture before until your edit and yes http://i.imgur.com/IH0Cs.jpg this looks like a Rowan.

http://www.gardenaction.co.uk/trees/rowan-mountain-ash/sorbus-aucuparia.asp

[Oakenwise]

These are spruce trees this is the pic i was commenting on I havent seen the other picture before until your edit and yes its a Rowan.

Ah, so Spruce and Rowan? Interesting. I can't tell the difference between the two other than the fact that one has berries. ;)

That and the quality of that latest photo is terrible...

[Silverback]

Ah, so Spruce and Rowan? Interesting. I can't tell the difference between the two other than the fact that one has berries. ;)

That and the quality of that latest photo is terrible...

Rowans have leaves, spruce have needles

http://www.gardenaction.co.uk/trees/rowan-mountain-ash/sorbus-aucuparia.asp

http://www.finegardening.com/plants/articles/spruce-fir-pine.aspx

[Oakenwise]

Rowans have leaves, spruce have needles

http://www.gardenaction.co.uk/trees/rowan-mountain-ash/sorbus-aucuparia.asp

How embarrassing... I should've looked closer. Once I zoomed in I could see that they were, in fact, leaves instead of needles.

I think I'd better stop before I make myself sound even more foolish.

I know if I want to ask about tree species it shouldn't be here!

Thanks everyone.

[Silverback]

I know if I want to ask about tree species it shouldn't be here!



This sites as good as any.......or do you mean in this part of the forum ;) Friendly bunch you wont get flamed for asking.....not unless its a 'which axe' question ;)

[Oakenwise]

This sites as good as any.......or do you mean in this part of the forum ;) Friendly bunch you wont get flamed for asking.....not unless its a 'which axe' question ;)
Heh. I should've made it clearer that I ment this particular section of the forum. Of course I'm sure that Natural Bushcraft has a lot of information to read and to give when it comes to different species of tree.

Back on topic: Would anyone like to share stories regarding keeping the environment clean and safe, leaving no trace, etc?

[JonnyP]

A lot going on in this fred..!
I hate litter and anyone who leaves their rubbish behind is scum as far as I am concerned.

Fir trees.. Spruce-single. Pine-pairs. Larch-lots.

Victorian bottles.. Nice pot lid there Fish.. I used to dig bottles as a kid. Best place we had was in water and we had to feel for them in the mud, going careful not to get cut.

Old mans beard.. British stuff is green and not mean't to be so good as tinder..
http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s188/jonpickett/Wistmanswood019.jpg
EDIT.. Looking again at this ^ pic, I think its moss hanging here and not old mans beard. I just found it when I was looking for the Swedish stuff.

Swedish stuff is browner and mean't to be better as tinder.. I have found them both rubbish at taking an ember, but will catch from a flame.. Its a lichen I think, and will only grow well in clean air..
http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s188/jonpickett/DSC04058Small.jpg

[Oakenwise]

Fir trees.. Spruce-single. Pine-pairs. Larch-lots.


No Rowan? Or are you saying that what Sapper said as Rowan is actually Larch, because Larch has similar red seeds.

Edit: But that tree, the previously thought Rowan with the berries, has leaves not needles like a Larch does! I'm confused. :)

[JonnyP]

No Rowan? Or are you saying that what Sapper said as Rowan is actually Larch, because Larch has similar red seeds.

Edit: But that tree, the previously thought Rowan, has leaves not needles! I'm confused. :)

Rowan/Mountain Ash is not a fir tree ;0) Sorry, I might be missing something here, I did not click on the links :0/

[Oakenwise]

Rowan/Mountain Ash is not a fir tree ;0) Sorry, I might be missing something here, I did not click on the links :0/
We're talking about this. http://i.imgur.com/IH0Cs.jpg

Sapper said it looks like Rowan. I just naturally made the conclusion that you were reffering to this as Larch because that has red seeds, and that was the only similar one to this so-called "Rowan" in your list that I quoted. There, I hope that makes sense now. Heh heh.

Edit: I shouldn't have tried to interperet what you meant because, quite frankly, I'm clueless.

I think I'm going to watch some videos on tree identification.

[JonnyP]

We're talking about this. http://i.imgur.com/IH0Cs.jpg

Sapper said it looks like Rowan. I just naturally made the conclusion that you were reffering to this as Larch because that has red seeds, and that was the only similar one to this so-called "Rowan" in your list that I quoted. There, I hope that makes sense now. Heh heh.

Edit: I shouldn't have tried to interperet what you meant because, quite frankly, I'm clueless.

I think I'm going to watch some videos on tree identification.

I agree with Sapper, looks very much like Rowan. Also called Mountain Ash, the leaves are similar to Ash trees. Its a tree that grows well in Scotland.

[Oakenwise]

I agree with Sapper, looks very much like Rowan. Also called Mountain Ash, the leaves are similar to Ash trees. Its a tree that grows well in Scotland.
Ah, well that settles it. Two people, yourself and Sapper, have named it Rowan. And what do you know, I was in Scotland. What are the chances?

Cheers!

Okay, I think we've talked enough about tree indentifcation in this thread. This was about keeping the environment clean. I hate when I make threads go off-topic. 'Twas mine own fault. : )

[JonnyP]

We're talking about this. http://i.imgur.com/IH0Cs.jpg

Sapper said it looks like Rowan. I just naturally made the conclusion that you were reffering to this as Larch because that has red seeds, and that was the only similar one to this so-called "Rowan" in your list that I quoted. There, I hope that makes sense now. Heh heh.

Edit: I shouldn't have tried to interperet what you meant because, quite frankly, I'm clueless.

I think I'm going to watch some videos on tree identification.

I agree with Sapper, looks very much like Rowan. Also called Mountain Ash, the leaves are similar to Ash trees. Its a tree that grows well in Scotland and also a good carrier for Mistletoe.
Larch seeds are nothing like Rowan seeds btw..

[Oakenwise]

I've just been reading about the Rowan in all its detail (interesting folklore). I could've eaten the scarlet berries, right? Darn! I wish I'd have known back then.