Natural Geological Activity? ...Or do we have mini Pirates in Kent?

[f0rm4t]

I was out with the hounds on Sunday in a private wood near me and came across this hole in the ground with what looked like mini caves coming off the sides.
What do you think this is? ...a natural occurrence?
I've taken some video of the surroundings to give a better all-round view of the environment.

Any explanations would be gratefully received as I would really like to understand how this came about.


http://youtu.be/QvToQ0xPnyY

[fish]

stone mining mate got one near the same down the road from us.

[AL...]

Yup they look man made to me too.
Realy cool place to have a wander for sure and thanks for sharing Paul :D

Cheers
AL

[Humakt]

I also live in God's Clean County. There are deneholes all over the place - I wonder if what you have found is one?
No one really knows what deneholes were for, but it's thought they may have been hiding places against Viking (dene/dane) raids - but whether for hiding people or possessions is unsure.
That said, the deneholes I have seen have been very deep (30' plus) and wide (10' plus), although most of that has been caused by erosion over the centuries. And most deneholes are also pinpointed on Ordnance Survey maps. Might be worth looking at the one covering your area to see if it has been surveyed?
Or it could be a flint mine? Kent is made of flint and it looks as though the thing you have found is embedded in chalk - as flint often is.
I'd put my money on one or the other.

[FishyFolk]

If I saw that here, I'd think it was part of German fortifcations from the war. Watch this from 10:20


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLITZ_L01mE&feature=g-upl

[biker-bri]

I,d watch where you are walking in the future, there could well be more sink-holes in that area, I remember TIME TEAM excavating one
a few years ago and that one went really deep, as Humakt said flint mining is a good possibility.
Cheers Bri

[butchthedog]

Hi, you learn something new every day on here. The only holes we have up here are from mining, be that Coal, Flourospar or year's ago "Lead" in Weardale. Oh and the Council leave one or two about, mainly on the highways LOL

[HillBill]

Could also be made for storing foodstuffs over winter, underground is remarkably stable temp/humidity wise :)

[Tony1948]

Paul I think it chalk or flint hole ,I'm not to certain I think they use to burn chalk to get lime it could be for that,or some ass badger digging?Nice place, caint we do a bit of stelf camping over there could we?

[Ehecatl]

Hi Paul.

If that's where I think it is it's on the edge of Cozendon woods and is well known about. I've actually slept in the cave after a good session in the Cock at Luddesdown (fortunately I went prepared).

It was probably around 20 years ago (roughly) that the full roof fell in. The original "entrance" was little bigger than a man hole cover. As youngsters we would perpetuate the rumour that Dick Turpin used to hide in the cave. I couldn't say whether the caves were natural or not but when I was (a lot) younger there was not anything to suggest spoil from within (assuming that it was flint being mined) was piled nearby and I recall that chalk doubles in volume when excavated, so it would have been an unsightly bump evan after a very long time.

I'll ask around for you - my Mum might remember Dick Turpin :D

[f0rm4t]

Thanks for the feedback thus far chaps.
It really is an interesting little wood. The first time I went over there, the first thing I thought was it had been subject to bombing during WWII, as it was pitted with loads of perfect craters maybe five meters wide. Now looking at the wood on a wider scope, I'm wondering if they are actually natural. The A2, formally the "Roman Road", which runs about 500 yards beside the wood is a straight road running all the way from Dover into London. The WWII German bomber pilots used to use it as a guide all the way into London. Some would drop prematurely (self preservation) and get back across the Channel on the quick however.

I think you are onto something there Humakt, but as you say and from what I've read post your suggestion, Deneholes are abundant in our Garden of England, but are vastly bigger. I've had a look at the OS map and nothing is listed.

I've found a blog from a Geocacher (http://geocachingwithgeokids.wordpress.com/tag/dene-hole/) who got inside and took pictures, I was REALLY surprised how deep they go!

Would still like to hear more opinions on this.

Tony, this could indeed be a venue for a SE stealth camp while we're waiting for Mark's permission to open after the pheasant season. I know you like your creature comforts though mate, and backing the truck up to the site is not going to be possible at this location. You'll have to see about bringing an entourage of kit monkeys mate! Ha! ;)

[f0rm4t]

AAAHHHH!

Posted that last one before I read your post M@!
This is why I love this community. You can find out so much.

Having some local company has proved it's worth. Thanks M@.
The cave-in of the original opening makes perfect sense now!!!!!

Can't believe you've kipped in it Ha! T^

[Ehecatl]

There's also another "cave" near New Barn in Court Wood. This one goes straight down and if you thought the Cozendon caves were deep, prepared to be stunned! I suspect this one was "mined" as it looks too straight to be natural.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=new+barn&hl=en&ll=51.403195,0.326543&spn=0.014671,0.042272&client=firefox-a&channel=s&hnear=New+Barn,+Kent,+United+Kingdom&t=m&z=15

I'll see if I can find out who owns Cozendon woods. I know it's popular with dog walkers (my mother being on of them) and in all my 42 years of living within a mile of it I've never heard of anyone being challenged so an over-nighter may be feasible. I'll let you know what I discover......

[f0rm4t]

Nice one M@.

I've been over there once myself and once with my eldest lad. Of all the times I've been over there with the dogs, I've only ever seen one other and his dog (Sunday, when I found the Denehole), and a lady on a horse a few months ago.

Finding out the landowner would be great!! I'd prefer to build a rapport with him (via a gift of good bottle of something) and see if I can get permission for overnighters and to take a few guns up there etc. I've a feeling it's a member of the aristocracy though, might be wrong.

[Silverback]

Hi, you learn something new every day on here. The only holes we have up here are from mining, be that Coal, Flourospar or year's ago "Lead" in Weardale. Oh and the Council leave one or two about, mainly on the highways LOL


I was down the mine at Nenthead when 9/11 happened, it was really surreal emerging from underground and finding that out. I'm from Yorkshire, we have all sorts of holes, mainly mining subsidence but in the north we get shake holes /sink holes which are collapsed cave systems

[Humakt]

... as it was pitted with loads of perfect craters maybe five meters wide.

That could make the possibility of it being a flint mine even more likely - you would often find several small pits/mines in the area. The one you have found has been eroded by rain and weather over the years, as the possible roof collapse suggests.

Although, as you say, it could also be the result of some Luftwaffe pilot mistaking the lights of Gravesend for London and dropping his bombs a bit early so he can get home for tea...

[f0rm4t]

Although, as you say, it could also be the result of some Luftwaffe pilot mistaking the lights of Gravesend for London and dropping his bombs a bit early so he can get home for tea...

If I happened to be in a Dornier, with a full payload over Gravesend, I may well be forgiven for... :evilgrin:

[Ehecatl]

Nice one M@.

I've been over there once myself and once with my eldest lad. Of all the times I've been over there with the dogs, I've only ever seen one other and his dog (Sunday, when I found the Denehole), and a lady on a horse a few months ago.

Finding out the landowner would be great!! I'd prefer to build a rapport with him (via a gift of good bottle of something) and see if I can get permission for overnighters and to take a few guns up there etc. I've a feeling it's a member of the aristocracy though, might be wrong.

Hi Paul.

I am reliably informed that:

"
Cozendon woods is owned by Lord Mexborough, but is very hard to contact. You have to go through his agents whoever they are.

The chalk cave is an old dene hole used by the residents of the medieval village from the middle of the woods.
"
Now we know.

Cheers,

M@

[butchthedog]

I was down the mine at Nenthead when 9/11 happened, it was really surreal emerging from underground and finding that out. I'm from Yorkshire, we have all sorts of holes, mainly mining subsidence but in the north we get shake holes /sink holes which are collapsed cave systems

Know what you mean there, I was heading north on the A74 Half Hour before the plane came down at Lockerbie one of the lads I worked with was Half Hour behind me and had the paintwork scorched on his trailer, he was ok physically but badly affected mentally. Terrible business.
I recall passing the "Buttertubs" think they were sink holes in yorkshire, these were quite deep and in the dark would be a hazzard, probably 20 years ago since I saw them.

[f0rm4t]

Hi Paul.

I am reliably informed that:

"
Cozendon woods is owned by Lord Mexborough, but is very hard to contact. You have to go through his agents whoever they are.

The chalk cave is an old dene hole used by the residents of the medieval village from the middle of the woods.
"
Now we know.

Cheers,

M@


Cheers M@
I've looked up on him a bit and he's a bit of a petrol head who resides in Yorkshire (probably a London pad too). Has one of the most enviable classic Porche collections on the planet apparently.
So at least I know he not going to be running after me with a shotgun for kipping between his trees.

That said, he undoubtedly rents the land for agriculture which may or may not include the wood. So will still try and acquire a permission on it if I can.

Thanks again for the efforts mate!

[Silverback]

Know what you mean there, I was heading north on the A74 Half Hour before the plane came down at Lockerbie one of the lads I worked with was Half Hour behind me and had the paintwork scorched on his trailer, he was ok physically but badly affected mentally. Terrible business.
I recall passing the "Buttertubs" think they were sink holes in yorkshire, these were quite deep and in the dark would be a hazzard, probably 20 years ago since I saw them.

Plenty of sink holes up in the Dales yes. Many of my friends turned out to PanAm 103...a particularly nasty job which lingers in the memories of many.

Back to holes..In the Dark Peak / South Pennines (Im sure its the same up on the North Pennines/Cheviots/NYM) we get the rather disturbing occurrence of placing down your foot and then watching it disappear into a hole in the peat..sometimes you can feel the bottom, many times you cant..but there is the sound of trickling water a long way down !!!

It has resulted in many a muddy body part particularly in the dark and in bad weather, a light covering of snow makes it particularly hazardous and one claimed 2 of us on a night shout earlier this year

[butchthedog]

Can't be to careful, but saying that it's so easy to get it wrong. Lapse of concentration etc.

[Silverback]

Can't be to careful, but saying that it's so easy to get it wrong. Lapse of concentration etc.

Yup and given we are usually concentrating on why we are there in the first place lol