PDA

View Full Version : Learning from cold wet misery



susannewilliams
18-12-2012, 01:58 AM
I was reading epic tales of daring-do, and reflecting on the various ways in which I have come to be cold and miserable outdoors over the years... and Wow, have I ever spent a lot of cold, wet, miserable nights. Glad of each one of them.

From lean-to shelters in the High Alps in winter, to the ultralight hypothermia dance that is the Karrimor International Mountain Marathon, I have suffered it, and finally learned to be COZY in more or less all of it. (If I keep my wits about me, which I still am able to fail to do at times...then I pay the "stupid tax")

What are your learnings / epics?


Key takeaways for me from all that misery:

Increase warmth
Reduce loss of warmth

These are two separate strategies...


Increase warmth
Hot water bottle in the bedroll/sleeping bag/jacket - Yup. Just plain old Nalgene bottle full of boiling hot water. Yeah. Oh YEAH. Man, if you have never tried this...
Easier to stay warm than get warm - moderate bodily exertion before sleep.
Eat/drink something hot - heat inside = good.
Candle Latern - in a tent? Just do it. At the very very least it wards off condensation.

Actually I do like to have the warming fire, but it needs to actually make a micro climate and not just be for light.
eg - Use a reflector, send the heat into an enclosed environment, make a long fire or nying fire.
(For added warmth value, you can bring the logs into camp but not process them. The act of sawing and chopping will help bring your body furnace back up.)

Reduce loss of warmth
Insulation from ground - 3 times as much as you think you need. Best sleep we EVER had on the KIMM was when we pitched on top of a huge clump of heather. AWESOME!
Drink - hydration is the key. When your blood is thick you simply can not get it into your extremities.
Build small. Yes, small. Micro-climate. Emphasis on "micro"
Insulate your core - A scarf, newspapers, sweater, or even pine or other insulation around your waist......keep your kidneys happy.

Of course you MUST break the killer triangle of cold, wet, windy....

Makes me think of the time.... (yikes...)
...I forgot the dry socks
...My nice dry cold snow day turned to windy near freezing driving rain (guess who had not checked the weather forecast)
...The jetpacker tent dripped condensation on us... all night. (GET a candle lantern if you are going to use a low tent)
...I realised how much wind and rain gets through pine bough shingle that is not deep enough (tarp? nah man, I don't need a tarp...)
...my 12 inches of pine bough bedding did NOT keep me nearly far enough off the snow
...I forgot to drink
...I took the fire for granted, and did not scope out more than enough standing dead wood BEFORE dark. (I don't mind going out to get the wood at night, kind of stokes the furnace, but FINDING IT? No. Dumb.)
...Fingers? What fingers? Oh you mean they should be working at all times?
...Whiteout on Ben Nevis. No, you can not guess. Thank GOODNESS that we brought a Porta-Bothy. (I always have that and brew kit in my sac in the winter now...)
...Hey WOW how did my sleeping bag get wet inside my tent? I have 2 more nights to go and just a spirit stove for cooking... Ewwwww....
...What duuuya min AMMA culd? Fuggin muhhthurrr hhenn...gett offferrrme. (Ten mins later inside the Porta-Bothy with a hot sugary brew in me, I thanked him profusely)

You get the idea...haha the more of these I write up, the more terribly embarrassing moments come into my mind...

All good.

Susanne

Silverback
18-12-2012, 07:16 AM
Hypothermia.... The cold silent killer.....

luresalive
18-12-2012, 07:56 AM
some good tips there Susanne

FishyFolk
18-12-2012, 08:44 AM
Keep your dry kit dry
Your extra pair of wool socks and wool or thick fleece sweater is holy. It ONLY comes on in camp after heavy chores done, or in a real emmergency and will never, ever be allowed to get wet!

susannewilliams
18-12-2012, 10:06 AM
Keep your dry kit dry
Your extra pair of wool socks and wool or thick fleece sweater is holy. It ONLY comes on in camp after heavy chores done, or in a real emmergency and will never, ever be allowed to get wet!

Oh so so true. Warm dry socks and sweater. Also maybe dry undershirt...

susannewilliams
18-12-2012, 10:07 AM
Epics....wanna hear your epics.... :-)

FishyFolk
18-12-2012, 11:02 AM
Epics....wanna hear your epics.... :-)

When I was in the army, we where on winter excercise in the hills. At endex we where marched down to a road, in open terrain. Not a bush to shelter in. Then the BV's came and picked up our packs containing all our dry gear, tents and shelter kits...and we were told they would be back 1 hour later to pick us up...

We were surrounded by a 1 meter deep wet snow, that we had trundled trough all day. It started to drizzle, there we were...150 men standing in the middle of our clothes trying not to touch any fabric with bare skin, in the "standard NATO hate position" as we call it..."

The BV's came 6 hours later..by then we were hudling together like a flock of beached seals. More than a few went straight to hospital in severe hypothermia...we would have been better off marching off the hills, but the 2.nd LT left in charge did not dare countermand orders to wait for transport.

After that I never let go of my dry kit and Jerven bag...

susannewilliams
18-12-2012, 11:34 AM
Oh the Jerven Bag - I LOVE IT.

Jerven Bag with Mountain Serape is such a combination. Awesome

FishyFolk
18-12-2012, 11:48 AM
Oh the Jerven Bag - I LOVE IT.

Jerven Bag with Mountain Serape is such a combination. Awesome

I got the Jerven Thermo hunter, so it allready has a liner, so don't need any extra. If very cold I put my sleeping bag inside it.

susannewilliams
18-12-2012, 12:30 PM
I have the Thermo XL. (Just a little bigger) And I use the Mountain Serape underneath when very cold.

Exact.

susannewilliams
18-12-2012, 01:30 PM
Oh and yes. Evil BVs. Evil.

Haha Standard NATO hate position - Yes.

Al21
18-12-2012, 06:01 PM
Hi Susanne and welcome to the forum!

Not sure these are the sort of tales you're after, but I'm thinking that stories where I'm no longer a good example but am serving as a warning might do.

So: A motorcycle journey of 150 one winter evening in an open face helmet, fairly cold with occasional sleet. I got really cold, so cold my pillion was complaining of my shivering shaking the bike. We kept going thinking it'd be right, till I'd passed the shivering and entered the slurring phase did my mate realise I was in the poo and I got sorted out.

It wasn't that cold, though wind chill was obviously a factor. I had half inch long icicles hanging from my eyelashes, but nothing I'd not experienced before. Thinking about it later I put it down to being dehydrated before we set off and being to stupid to stop when I first started to feel really cold.

Another time it was sunstroke while out in the sailing dinghy, messing about fishing, swimming etc. It's difficult to escape the sun in an open 15 foot dinghy! Again, much more water to drink needed than I thought for the activities I was doing. While I wasn't incapacitated, I was definitely going down when I returned to the slipway.

Another act of stupidity, was paddling from Dell Quay to East Head (about 7-8 miles) and falling asleep in the dunes and waking up to find the tide mostly receeded and having to paddle, pole and wade my way home through some fastish flowing shallow water and some pretty viscous mud in places. I made it back to the car in the darktired and filthy, but feeling satisfied that I'd not given up and left the canoe and walked to get the car. Especially as I'd seen several patches of fluorescent plankton as I splashed my way home, which, to me, justified my stubborn battling on.

Lastly, nothing dramatic at all, but arranging to go for a walk with a mate. Driving thirty odd miles to our planned start, getting my boots out, only to find that due to my idiocy and pairs of his/hers matching walking boots I had a size 9 left boot and a size 6 right. Rude words were said!

There, I hope some of you get to smile at my expense.

Al

Ehecatl
18-12-2012, 07:32 PM
My worst experience, was when I was soaking wet and I think it was an average winter day but raining steadily. I'd be fine wouldn't I? I was with someone and very near home, how could I get hypothermia? It was probably only mild (hypothermia) and had the fastening on my overalls not be velcro I don't think I would have had the dexterity to remove them once indoors and talking wasn't possible. I just about managed to get a brew in me and then get into a warm bath - I knew I was the only one who could treat me. All this from helping my dad lay a patio in the back garden!

I got some gortex socks for my birthday earleir this year. My feet just don't get cold in these and so I stay warm :campfire:

M@

susannewilliams
19-12-2012, 04:29 PM
I love my Sealskinz socks!


My worst experience, was when I was soaking wet and I think it was an average winter day but raining steadily. I'd be fine wouldn't I? I was with someone and very near home, how could I get hypothermia? It was probably only mild (hypothermia) and had the fastening on my overalls not be velcro I don't think I would have had the dexterity to remove them once indoors and talking wasn't possible. I just about managed to get a brew in me and then get into a warm bath - I knew I was the only one who could treat me. All this from helping my dad lay a patio in the back garden!

I got some gortex socks for my birthday earleir this year. My feet just don't get cold in these and so I stay warm :campfire:

M@

Big T
26-12-2012, 01:22 PM
Some good stories here!:)

Jefferson
01-01-2013, 07:22 PM
I love my Sealskinz socks!
Sealskinz are the way forward!! I swear by mine!! I'm quite a fan of the gloves too :)

susannewilliams
08-01-2013, 02:25 AM
We had quite a scary scene in the alps, not wet but suddenly very cold as a wind picked up on a sunny day at 4000m. From fine to near incapacitated in 15 mins!

FishyFolk
08-01-2013, 07:03 AM
We had quite a scary scene in the alps, not wet but suddenly very cold as a wind picked up on a sunny day at 4000m. From fine to near incapacitated in 15 mins!

That is what you have to be prepared for up in the mountains. Sadly some people never are...from time to time we get to read about them in the news...

susannewilliams
08-01-2013, 09:57 AM
Yep. Fortunately we are both pretty experienced and saw the signs very quickly, and most importantly - INSISTED and got it sorted.
We were within 10 mins walk of the hut but still had to stop and warm them before being able to make the final climb to the hut.
Amazing, from sweating in 30 degree heat to hypothermic in 15 mins.

Personally I have felt a crash coming whilst fellrunning a few times. Happens so fast. I always have a little hypothermia kit with me.

(SACKit - Staying Alive Cold Kit)
2 space blankets, one with a slit so you can put your head through, the other to cover your head.
Several tealight candles - matches
Power gel x 3

You sit with your knees drawn up and in a small tent made by the space blanket
Light the candle
Eat the Gel

Soon better.

Fell running is a really vulnerable endeavor because you are wearing and carrying so little, and are often so remote.