navigation

[Dave ward]

Ok guys i thought we could have a bit of fun and learn at the same time by having a situation that you find yourself in and here it is- your on a holiday abroad and have noticed what you think would be a nice little walk through some unfamilar woodland/landscape, you dont take anything with you as you know where the hotel is and its only a stroll after all...so there you are walking away and before you know it this unfamilar land is closing in and looking very diffrent and also time has gone by so fast you think you better turn and head back. thing is you have left the track and are now in the wild, you cant see any landmarks and your lost! Now you know your hotel is in a north east direction so now, how you gonna find your way back? Its midday and boiling hot, lets get as many ways of navigation and share or knowledge :)

[BJ]

Find some shade and place a stick in ground vertically the sun will cast a shadow. Mark the end of the shadow with a stone. Rest for a quarter of an hour in the shade and enjoy the holiday. then place another stone on the end of the shadow which will now have moved . Draw a line between the two and you have a definite fix knowing the sun's path.

I often wander off on holiday, especially when the wife is in the shops. ( after all it's a holiday and a break from my usual role of "paying and carrying")

[jus_young]

Northern Hemisphere

Take my watch and point the hour hand (the smaller one) directly at the sun. Imagine a line halfway between the hour hand and the number 12 and this will be pointing to the South. From this you can then find any direction.

Southern Hemisphere

The same as above but this results in finding North rather than South.

No problems if you only have a digital watch as you can imagine where the the numbers and hands will be or you could draw a clock on the floor to help you out.

Now obviously as its Midday then the sun is directly South anyway...

[BJ]

I have a digital watch with electronic compass is that cheating ? http://yoursmiles.org/ssmile/fun/s0226.gif (http://yoursmiles.org/s-fun.php)

[Dave ward]

Some great methods here and share i guess if you are wearing a watch with a compass on it then your laughing ha ha

[SimonB]

Turn and follow my tracks back to the path...... :)

[Dave ward]

Yep could do SimonB :) what other ways can you think of? :)

[SimonB]

Climb a tree, get my bearings, head that way with a length of string behind me. Keeping it in a straight line made sure I was going in the right direction without deviation.

[Dave ward]

Good one buddy! Great tip, so easy to stray off a bearing

[suggy]

Assuming you have these items with you...

Take a cup of water, drop a small piece of tissue / kitchen roll onto the surface and carefully drop a sewing needle onto the tissue.

The tissue will sink leaving the needle floating on the skin of the water, turning to face north.

At least that's how I remember doing it as a kid.


Go on ! you know you want to try it ! :cool:



( can't remember if its the point of the needle that faces north, I think you can magnetize it if need be by brushing something magnetic along it to polarize it )

[Ehecatl]

I could use the compass app on my phone or the navigation function :happy-clapping:

[Dave ward]

That's a great one, never heard of this method before and i am definitely gonna try it! :)

[Dave ward]

*needle and water method

[suggy]

It's the eye of the needle that turns to face north,

and the smaller needles stand a better chance of sitting on the skin of the water.

67316732

Have fun ! :)

[suggy]

Edit: double post,please remove :)

[Silverback]

I could use the compass app on my phone or the navigation function :happy-clapping:

Seriously hope you are having a laugh

[Ehecatl]

Seriously hope you are having a laugh

I resemble that remark! ;)

[Dave ward]

Ok so what do we all think of the moss on a tree trunk method? :)

[Silverback]

Ok so what do we all think of the moss on a tree trunk method? :)

more accurate than these phones running basic mapping and good old 'dashboard doris'

[Dave ward]

Definitely sapper, i sometimes practice this method when i go to new woods and i don't know any compass direction. I have a go and then get the botton compass out to see if im right(ish) and to be fair when i 1st ststarted i kept on getting it wrong as i could never remember what direction the moss pointed to ha ha hope your two jobs are going well anyway sapper :)

[Silverback]

two jobs ?

[Dave ward]

I thought you tought health and safe and also did rescue work too? :) sorry if im wrong matey

[Silverback]

I thought you tought health and safe and also did rescue work too? :) sorry if im wrong matey

Ahhhh i get it now.Yes. For a day job I teach 1st Aid and health and safety related subjects, and Im a volunteer MR member in my spare time.

Day job isnt doing that well down to the recession and as a result the volunteering suffers too - cant afford it :(

[Dave ward]

Sorry to hear that mate! :( i hope things start looking up for soon buddy.

[Silverback]

i can still navigate by natural means though ;)

[BJ]

It's the eye of the needle that turns to face north,

and the smaller needles stand a better chance of sitting on the skin of the water.

67316732



Have fun ! :)

This looks akin to nailing a bubble to a wall, I have trouble floating a plastic duck in the bath. http://yoursmiles.org/tsmile/emb/t1845.gif (http://yoursmiles.org/t-emb.php?page=2)

[Silverback]

This looks akin to nailing a bubble to a wall, I have trouble floating a plastic duck in the bath. http://yoursmiles.org/tsmile/emb/t1845.gif (http://yoursmiles.org/t-emb.php?page=2)


put it on gently and the meniscus should hold it. Failing that you can float a leaf or something similar and place the needle on it

[BJ]

I understand the physics of surface tension, however my fingers do not and these hands that can work on PCBs at component level must have a natural agent that disrupts the surface tension on contact. It's like putting washing up liquid in. I will have to resort to lowering it in on a cotton or the leaf idea might work. http://yoursmiles.org/msmile/fun/m0128.gif (http://yoursmiles.org/m-fun.php)

[Silverback]

Lol yes they do, natural oils from your skin.....

[Basha72]

Although the moss direction does work, you can find yourself in some woods where all the trees have moss and can also be on all sides, ! Also another method is that trees will grow more branches on the southern side due to more light exposure etc giving a ticking effect, these are guides not exact science 6755 this picture I took kind of knocks that theory also most growth was on the north west side, but this was due to these hazel stumps being in the bottom of valley so the light was bouncing of the opposite valley side and the bank and larger trees were blocking out the sun on the southern side. it's just a matter of reading the signs of the land to try and work out direction. The natural navigator book is a great little read as is Harold Gattys book


Dave

[Ehecatl]

Although the moss direction does work, you can find yourself in some woods where all the trees have moss and can also be on all sides, !
Dave

Surely this would mean you'd be at the North Pole? [discuss] ;)

M@

[Dave ward]

Although in some cases the moss on tree trunks can be a good pointer i think in dense woodland etc it is just not a reliable pointer. I have been told that wind can be used to help you find water which in turn you can follow. I was once told that wind blows to large water source's in the morning and away from it in the afternoon, its ment to be something to do with air pressure over the water. At least if its true you can follow a stream/lake and hopefully reach safety but at least you'll have a source of water and possible food.

[Mark46w]

I think most of the obvious answers have been covered,but I agree with BJ on the stick in the ground method.
Does he get a prize?

[Silverback]

Although in some cases the moss on tree trunks can be a good pointer i think in dense woodland etc it is just not a reliable pointer. I have been told that wind can be used to help you find water which in turn you can follow. I was once told that wind blows to large water source's in the morning and away from it in the afternoon, its ment to be something to do with air pressure over the water. At least if its true you can follow a stream/lake and hopefully reach safety but at least you'll have a source of water and possible food.

Water always flows downhill. Follow a stream, to a river etc....usually will lead to some habitation. There's an exception to this.....Kinder Downfall flows uphill in strong winds ;)

[Dave ward]

Well there's been some great methods here! Seems the stick and shadow is up there with the needle and water method, as for prizes, ummm we'll you get a congratulations from us all here :)

[andy202wr]

Phone my mate up. He has an app that can track a mobile phone if he has the No.
Ask him where I am , then use the compass on my mobile to find my way out.

[Bob W]

Find some shade and place a stick in ground vertically the sun will cast a shadow. Mark the end of the shadow with a stone. Rest for a quarter of an hour in the shade and enjoy the holiday. then place another stone on the end of the shadow which will now have moved . Draw a line between the two and you have a definite fix knowing the sun's path.

I often wander off on holiday, especially when the wife is in the shops. ( after all it's a holiday and a break from my usual role of "paying and carrying")

That will actually give you north I believe. In both hemeispheres!!

[Bob W]

If it's dark and you can see the plough, follow the two stars that form the back of the blade, the first bright star that a line drawn between these is the north star.

http://www.satsig.net/maps/how-to-find-north-pole-star.htm

But everyone already knows this I suppose!

[Under My Basha]

I always turn at track junctions and memorise the picture, started doing this because the return never looks the same to me lol.

Quick trick I learnt for distance from a guru, if you have a analog watch and set it to 12:00 then pull the crown out and using that run it along your route on a map then when finished run it backwards on the maps scale counting the units until it rewinds to 12:00 you have your distance. Thought its a clever trick and better than playing with string over swagging it.

[Rasputin]

Although the moss direction does work, you can find yourself in some woods where all the trees have moss and can also be on all sides, ! Also another method is that trees will grow more branches on the southern side due to more light exposure etc giving a ticking effect, these are guides not exact science 6755 this picture I took kind of knocks that theory also most growth was on the north west side, but this was due to these hazel stumps being in the bottom of valley so the light was bouncing of the opposite valley side and the bank and larger trees were blocking out the sun on the southern side. it's just a matter of reading the signs of the land to try and work out direction. The natural navigator book is a great little read as is Harold Gattys book


Dave

+ 1

[Rasputin]

One other method... If the track has pot holes with rainwater in them, the holes on the north side dry up quicker because the southerly side of the track is in the lee of the treeline, Oh I know what I mean,lol :wink:

[saxonaxe]

Although in some cases the moss on tree trunks can be a good pointer i think in dense woodland etc it is just not a reliable pointer. I have been told that wind can be used to help you find water which in turn you can follow. I was once told that wind blows to large water source's in the morning and away from it in the afternoon, its ment to be something to do with air pressure over the water. At least if its true you can follow a stream/lake and hopefully reach safety but at least you'll have a source of water and possible food.

A late answer to an old post. Trees and moss.. This tree is in a relatively clear space in the wood, so the 'North Moss' indication is accurate by my compass when I checked.

http://i.imgur.com/xjBhzCCl.jpg

And as the tree sees more than it's fair share of sunlight, so branches tend to grow well on the sunny Southern side. and she wears a moss coat against the cold North wind too..:D

http://i.imgur.com/X0r6fFml.jpg

I think Dave's reference to the movement of air over water might be as per sea breezes on warm/hot days. As the land warms up the air rises and the cooler air over the sea moves in to take it's place, so you get an onshore 'sea breeze'. At night, the land cools quicker than the sea and the general air flow is reversed so often there is a nice sailing breeze coming off the land..Very handy for making night coastal passages..:D
I don't know for sure but I would think it would have to be a fair size area of inland water for the effects to be noticable enough to help with inland navigation.

[Rasputin]

A late answer to an old post. Trees and moss.. This tree is in a relatively clear space in the wood, so the 'North Moss' indication is accurate by my compass when I checked.

http://i.imgur.com/xjBhzCCl.jpg

And as the tree sees more than it's fair share of sunlight, so branches tend to grow well on the sunny Southern side. and she wears a moss coat against the cold North wind too..:D

http://i.imgur.com/X0r6fFml.jpg

I think Dave's reference to the movement of air over water might be as per sea breezes on warm/hot days. As the land warms up the air rises and the cooler air over the sea moves in to take it's place, so you get an onshore 'sea breeze'. At night, the land cools quicker than the sea and the general air flow is reversed so often there is a nice sailing breeze coming off the land..Very handy for making night coastal passages..:D
I don't know for sure but I would think it would have to be a fair size area of inland water for the effects to be noticable enough to help with inland navigation.

Again on the moss issue..+ 1

[Bulletman]

Very useful indeed!

[Ferrell freddy]

On the stick in the ground issue; the line drawn between the 2 shadows will give you east-west the 1st shadow mark being west and the 2nd East.

[Dave ward]

Great examples of moss growing on the north side! Very interesting ways of navigation here, I've had a go at tieing a cotton thread to a needle to use as a compass and it took me a good 5mins because it was so fiddly!

[MikeWilkinson]

I'm currently reading ' finding your way without a map or compass'.

Has some very interesting things to say about cloud formations. Light refraction and trees and moss formations.

Not finished it yet. But regards the moss thing, you need to know about the areas prevailing wind and rain. Should it blow northerly then moss is unlikley to grow on the north side due to the moisture being dried out and it is more likely to grow east and west. Moss will grow where it is slightly shaded and damp. So knowing the local climate is vital. Likewise for trees having more branches on one side or the northern side branches growing up. Prevailing winds can seriously affect the trees growth patterns.

One good method of note is that pines and spruces have thicker bark on their north side and thinner on the south.

[Rasputin]

I'm currently reading ' finding your way without a map or compass'. Have you read The natural navigator by Tristan Gooley (unfortunate name perhaps, lol ) Its a good read. Its as the name implies but goes quite deep into the subject, sometimes a bit OTT but very interesting. ATB Ken BTW its not birch bound,lol

[blacksmith]

I grew up in Africa and was always taught to note the position of the sun hourly and then you work out roughly you directions from that.

[blacksmith]

When walking in woods, to maintain a straight line walk to the left of the first tree then to the right of the next tree and so on.

[Ehecatl]

In case you haven't seen it, this site has the "juicy" bits from the book (if you haven't read it). I particularly like the moon section.

Enjoy....

http://www.naturalnavigator.com/

[bushmanbobby]

Great post, learned a lot from the comments. Thanks!

[FishyFolk]

We are getting a little problem with navigation by map her in Norway.
They have more or less stopped printing the declination on maps.
There is an app wher eI can find this information, and that is nice as it changes with time.
The onløy problem with that is, that our maps uses UTM grid...and up her in the north,
the south-north lines of the grid, does not point to true north, and that is what you use to orient your compass.
So when given a declination of 7 degrees east, the real declination can be 9 degrees east.
That is not much of anb error, so people are told to just ignore it. The sollution is to stop and make a map reading more often.
Or just find a point in the terrain that matches your direction of march and head for that, take a new reading there and continue...

[Ehecatl]

In the UK we call this Magnetic Variation. Your post Rune, got me thinking as to how many youngsters even know about it, with all of the telephone and hand held Sat-Navs available today. We were taught Grid-to-Mag-ADD, Mag-to-Grid-GET RID as a way of remembering when to add or subtract it .

I though the link below may be useful for anyone wondering what declination or magnetic variation is all about.

https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/resources/maps-and-geographic-resources/finding-north.html

[FishyFolk]

navigation by mobile phoen app is for when you are in your car and can constantly charge it...it sucks battery power like nothing else...

[FishyFolk]

In the UK we call this Magnetic Variation. Your post Rune, got me thinking as to how many youngsters even know about it, with all of the telephone and hand held Sat-Navs available today. We were taught Grid-to-Mag-ADD, Mag-to-Grid-GET RID as a way of remembering when to add or subtract it .

I though the link below may be useful for anyone wondering what declination or magnetic variation is all about.

https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/resources/maps-and-geographic-resources/finding-north.html

It is important up her ein the North. In Finnmark it may be as much as a 15 degree difference :-)
And you can get very, very lost up there.

[Tigger004]

We are fortunate in the UK, If I remember correctly Grid north is about 1deg 10mins off mag north where I live

[FishyFolk]

Where I am I just need to find a house with a TV sattelite dish...this far north they are all pointed south, hehe

[Pootle]

Where I am I just need to find a house with a TV sattelite dish...this far north they are all pointed south, hehe
You just have to trust the installers accounted for declination.

Sent from my SM-A300FU using Tapatalk

[footsore1]

I used to teach navigation on bushcraft courses to hiking groups etc. I would go over map and compass methods and then talk about a
alternate ways to find the cardinal points including the watch technique mentioned earlier ie point the 12 at the sun and bisect the angle between the 12 and the hour hand to find north [southern hemisphere].

I'd conclude with asking to borrow some else's watch. Then I'd casually throw it over my shoulder [to a predetermined area that offered a soft landing] and explain to the onlookers as we searched for the watch that it had 'gone west'.;)

Care was always taken in the execution of this scheme so all watches were recovered undamaged and I consequently didn't end up with a disgruntled ex watch owner, a bill or a blackeye!!.

[Bernie]

Sorry, I've just got to...


Your dinner versus you're dinner: one leaves you nourished, the other leaves you dead. Correct grammar saves lives.

I'll grab my coat... :Sorry: