CO2 - The silent killer - alittle heads up

[FishyFolk]

A couple of years ago, Olympic cross country ski medalist Vegard Ulvang went on a little trip down to the south pole with his friends, and almost died of CO2 poisoning in his tent.
Like all such expeditions they used their stove in the tent both for cooking and heating. The Norwegian army does the same thing.

Anyway, after returning he investigated what had happened to him. And it turned out that the fault was not with his burner. It was his cooking pot that was the culprit. This also coincides with the finds from the Norwegian Defence Research Establishment (NDRE).

Basically what they found out is that as long as the stoves (multifuel types, burning gasoline, kerosine, butane etc) they do not produce dangerous levels of CO2. But when you put a pot on
it cols down the flame, and the production of CO2 increases.

Vegard Ulvangs expedition used a Primus ETA power pot witrh a heat exhanger. The heat exhanger on these potes are meant to "Reduce your cooking time, and fuel consumption by approx 33% as compared to ordinary cookware." But it also increases CO2 production 20- to 30 times!

So while cooking in a tent, with this type of burner...make sure there is plenty of ventilation.

[Paul De Fitter]

Shocking !:eek:

Good info there, 20 to 30 times more CO2, is truly terrifying, you'd think that using less fuel would be more safe.
That's why I use a tarp & hammock, plus it doesn't get that cold here in Kent. ;)

[Silverback]

Cheers Rune, those are scary figures...combine that with haemoglobin's 'preference' for CO In fact, CO bonds so well with hemoglobin that it does NOT tend to ever dissociate. And hemoglobin cannot bind both oxygen and carbon monoxide. This is a one-or-the-other situation. Since carbon monoxide binds more strongly, it always wins with these and you have a recipe for an early end to your life SCARY

[CanadianMike]

Is this about carbon dioxide (not poisonous) or carbon monoxide (highly poisonous as Sapper pointed out)? Obviously CO2 build up in a small area isn't healthy, but it looks like CO is what is being talked about Fishyfolk's description.

[Silverback]

While CO2 isnt in itself poisonous when in the air if in concentrated amounts ie in your bloodstream you can become hypercapnaeic

the causes include
- status epilepticus
- congestive heart failure
- respiratory failure
- asphyxia or suffocation
- respiratory dead space excess
- breathing pure oxygen
- ventilator malfunction
- presence of foreign bodies in airways
- respiratory arrest
- coma
- overdose of medical drugs or respiratory suppressants (e.g., sedative drugs, salicylate intoxication/overdose, curare, morphine and other opiates).

In this setting hypercapnea is a life-threatening condition that requires professional medical attention.

[paulthefish2009]

Scary stuff,I for one never cook in my bivy,frightens the life out of me to be honest! Paul

[FishyFolk]

Vegard Ulvang was unconcious when his mates got him out of the tent. I beleive one of the mebers of the expedition was a medical doctor...
@mike...the article I got it from only mentions CO2

[FishyFolk]

In the army we routinely slept with our Optimus 111 burning kerosene. But there was always one man awake, and the penalty for him falling asleep was quite severe...
But as the article says, when just a clean flame the CO2 levels where not harmfull at all. It's when you put the pot on. The results show increased co2 for regular pots, i.e trangia type. But the pots
with heat exhanger showed a rise of up to 20-30 times the normal rate.

The pot is cooling down the flame, and that gives an incomplete burn, resulting in more co2. The heat exhanger cools down the flame even more.
The article also says to be very aware when melting snow. But even when the water is boiling, it produces a lot of co2.


Rune

[CanadianMike]

Interesting.

[Geo-68]

I see im very late but as its appropiate to the question id like to ask for advice , whats the level of co2 from a wood stove ? say especially the frontier stove as it performs at best with the door left on the second latch leaving a 5-10mm gap open so a good draw can be obtained ! Im talking in a well vented tent designed for a wood stove but if it gets cold & you had the vents closed off can wood give a high level out put of co2 to be concerned ?

[sam_acw]

Always an important reminder