Calling all Craftsmen

[HillBill]

Petition for us to sign guys...

Petition to stop the government reclassifying craft as non-creative

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/49537

Heres an article going into more detail about it.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture-professionals-network/culture-professionals-blog/2013/may/07/crafts-creative-industries-dcms

[Sar-ian]

Done, nice one fella, just another example of traditional crafts and skills, not being valued in modern society ......cheers Ian....

[Stamp]

I'm happy to sign the petition, but could you explain the advantages or disadvantages of being classed non-creative?

[Thumbcrusher]

SignedT^

[HillBill]

Does it matter? :) Its an insult to all crafts people, put down by people who havn't got a creative bone in their bodies. And IMO a precursor for more things to follow. I expect there are commercial interests involved somewhere down the line. That few billion a year earned by craftspeople will be mighty tempting to manufacturers.


I'm happy to sign the petition, but could you explain the advantages or disadvantages of being classed non-creative?

[shepherd]

Done, nice one fella, just another example of traditional crafts and skills, not being valued in modern society ......cheers Ian....

thats the way of the world now, absolute rubbish... i think we were all born in the wrong century..

[snowleopard]

thats the way of the world now, absolute rubbish... i think we were all born in the wrong century..


+1 for that. Why can't they regard us as useful? What would happen if a nuclear bomb fell on all the factories? Sorry, couldn't resist the thought:mad2:

Joel

[Humakt]

Signed.
Utterly dumbfounding. So dumbfounding it requires no comment.

[fish]

signed,hardly surprising this comming from the government who sayes if you live in a homeless hostel your not homeless!

[Realearner]

Done, just wish it was that easy to get rid of some of the idiots in charge.

[shepherd]

signed,hardly surprising this comming from the government who sayes if you live in a homeless hostel your not homeless!

not heard tht one before... im in no way suprised though..

[rawfish111]

Done, just wish it was that easy to get rid of some of the idiots in charge.

+1

[HillBill]

Thanks fellas.

I've posted an aritcle about it in the OP

[Silverback]

Does it matter? :) Its an insult to all crafts people, put down by people who havn't got a creative bone in their bodies. And IMO a precursor for more things to follow. I expect there are commercial interests involved somewhere down the line. That few billion a year earned by craftspeople will be mighty tempting to manufacturers.

Exactly....signed !!

[butchthedog]

Signed with pleasure, :guns:

[biker-bri]

Signed - cant we get a petition to get rid of this government and put craftspeople in charge - as a youngster I served a "craft" based apprenticeship and became a welder / fitter !! :mad:
Cheers Bri

[Silverback]

Signed - cant we get a petition to get rid of this government and put craftspeople in charge - as a youngster I served a "craft" based apprenticeship and became a welder / fitter !! :mad:
Cheers Bri

hear hear.........what good is a nation full of merchant bankers and techo geeks ?

[HillBill]

Seems the reason they are doing it is basically because most craft businesses are sole traders who dont reach the compulsory VAT threshold of 75k per year.

In other words, they cant force extra tax out of us. Imagine it though.... a sole trader earning 50k per year and paying 40% tax isn't enough they want the extra 20% of VAT too. So they are being twats because they can't take 60% of our earnings as tax.

Thing is - we don't need the government.... but they need us.... we the people have the power to remove the government peacefully and lawfully. But because we are so divided as a population they can get away with what they want.

Conservatives..... putting the N into CUTS since maggie thatcher :D

[Silverback]

Seems the reason they are doing it is basically because most craft businesses are sole traders who dont reach the compulsory VAT threshold of 75k per year.

In other words, they cant force extra tax out of us. Imagine it though.... a sole trader earning 50k per year and paying 40% tax isn't enough they want the extra 20% of VAT too. So they are being twats because they can't take 60% of our earnings as tax.

Thing is - we don't need the government.... but they need us.... we the people have the power to remove the government peacefully and lawfully. But because we are so divided as a population they can get away with what they want.

Conservatives..... putting the N into CUTS since maggie thatcher :D


Article 61.......NOW !

[nilo52]

What in the World is wrong with the U.K. ? . Your country has so many wonderful things going for it , and yet this godawful " protective/Nanny" garbage is rampant there ! How did you guys get this way????

[f0rm4t]

Signed!

[HillBill]

Article 61.......NOW !

Get enough people together and the government could be removed........ as it is........pfft...... we have a nation of pussies......... without a political thought in their heads.


What in the World is wrong with the U.K. ? . Your country has so many wonderful things going for it , and yet this godawful " protective/Nanny" garbage is rampant there ! How did you guys get this way????

Mass immigration, media manipulation, divide and rule, give the people enough of what they want to keep them happy after creating a self centered thought process through media and marketing, close down all public meeting places such as pubs with a smoking ban.... by them having the guns and the masses thinking that we shouldn't even have a knife............... i could go on.... :(

[snowleopard]

Get enough people together and the government could be removed........ as it is........pfft...... we have a nation of pussies......... without a political thought in their heads.



Mass immigration, media manipulation, divide and rule, give the people enough of what they want to keep them happy after creating a self centered thought process through media and marketing, close down all puclic meeting places such as pubs with a smoking ban.... by them having the guns and the masses thinking that we shouldn't even have a knife............... i could go on.... :(

One of my friend thinks like that, and I agree. One of his jokes is that the phamaceutical companies are paying tescos etc. to but poisons in our food, and then we all have to go to the companies for drugs to get better again!

Thanks

Joel

[fish]

Mass immigration, media manipulation, divide and rule, give the people enough of what they want to keep them happy after creating a self centered thought process through media and marketing, close down all puclic meeting places such as pubs with a smoking ban.... by them having the guns and the masses thinking that we shouldn't even have a knife............... i could go on.... :(

++1

the polititians even scrapped the treason law just before they illegally signed our sovereignty away to the EU,oh and the police havent sworn allegiance to the queen since 2004.

[HillBill]

Probably not as far fetched as it sounds. Its the flouride in water and toothpaste that keeps people from getting all worked up. Its was trialed by the nazis and Russian POW camps in WW2, the flouridated the water to keep prisoners docile as it removes peoples ability to be aggressive. Its a deadly poision. Yet were spoon fed it daily. Aspartame is another such substance. An artificial sweetener than is basically the poop of genetically modified E-coli bacteria. And we drink it in nearly every diet drink, and its added to plenty of other things.



One of my friend thinks like that, and I agree. One of his jokes is that the phamaceutical companies are paying tescos etc. to but poisons in our food, and then we all have to go to the companies for drugs to get better again!

Thanks

Joel

[snowleopard]

Probably not as far fetched as it sounds. Its the flouride in water and toothpaste that keeps people from getting all worked up. Its was trialed by the nazis and Russian POW camps in WW2, the flouridated the water to keep prisoners docile as it removes peoples ability to be aggressive. Its a deadly poision. Yet were spoon fed it daily. Aspartame is another such substance. An artificial sweetener than is basically the poop of genetically modified E-coli bacteria. And we drink it in nearly every diet drink, and its added to plenty of other things.

That's why bushcraft and wild food knowledge is so useful!

Joel

[Brody Hooper]

So by there thinking did Michael Angelo manufacture his sculptures rather than create them? Obviously he spent more time carving stone than he did designing what it would look like, but the act of manufacturing it is just as much if not more a part of the creative process.

As for the politics, hardly any UK water has fluoride added so we're safe for now, the real problem imo is people don't want to admit there is one. If they admit their country is in trouble then they'd have a responsibility to do something about it which means effort, so most bury their heads in the sand and pretend they agree with the BS spouted through their little "windows to the world". I work with people whose opinions change daily depending on how the news told them to think that particular morning.

And when one of them realises that things may be a bit screwy they ponder it a moment whilst channel surfing and then get their memory wiped by "I'm a celebrity Xfactor" or "Big Brothers got talent". Seriously sit in a room and watch others as they view this junk "Don't look at the screen or you'll forget what you're doing" you can actually see them getting dumber right in front of you.

Simon Cowell is a form of brain disease, just £2 a week would allow someone to leave their house and get on a bus away from his shows for a short time, please give generously.

[HillBill]

I believe Michael Angelo and many of the famous sculptures only ever made anything out of clay or plaster and the real work in marble was done by experienced masons, who copied said sculptures.

All bottled water in the UK has flouride in it.... and i'm not convinced that it hasn't been added to reservoirs discreetly. I just dont trust the gov enough to take their word for it. :)

Yep, know exactly what your saying about the TV shows. The only 2 things i watch on TV are big bang theory and game of thrones..... might be having my mind fiddled with but i ca accept that for the quality of the shows :D

So by there thinking did Michael Angelo manufacture his sculptures rather than create them? Obviously he spent more time carving stone than he did designing what it would look like, but the act of manufacturing it is just as much if not more a part of the creative process.

As for the politics, hardly any UK water has fluoride added so we're safe for now, the real problem imo is people don't want to admit there is one. If they admit their country is in trouble then they'd have a responsibility to do something about it which means effort, so most bury their heads in the sand and pretend they agree with the BS spouted through their little "windows to the world". I work with people whose opinions change daily depending on how the news told them to think that particular morning.

And when one of them realises that things may be a bit screwy they ponder it a moment whilst channel surfing and then get their memory wiped by "I'm a celebrity Xfactor" or "Big Brothers got talent". Seriously sit in a room and watch others as they view this junk "Don't look at the screen or you'll forget what you're doing" you can actually see them getting dumber right in front of you.

Simon Cowell is a form of brain disease, just £2 a week would allow someone to leave their house and get on a bus away from his shows for a short time, please give generously.

[Silverback]

Get enough people together and the government could be removed........ as it is........pfft...... we have a nation of pussies......... without a political thought in their heads.



Mass immigration, media manipulation, divide and rule, give the people enough of what they want to keep them happy after creating a self centered thought process through media and marketing, close down all public meeting places such as pubs with a smoking ban.... by them having the guns and the masses thinking that we shouldn't even have a knife............... i could go on.... :(


Yup. Less 'how can i help' and more 'whats in it for me', hooked on labels and reality TV.......they are all doomed

[Silverback]

I just dont trust the gov enough to take their word for it. :)




are their lips moving ?.... Then they are lying.

[Sar-ian]

Surely off topic now fellas, but to put a slightly different twist on it, Am happy all the noubs sit in front of the goddle box, having their brains turned to mush.... because if they're in the house, they're not out in the woods, I say let them vegetate, LMFAO at all of them saddo's.... and in a world of plenty, why do so many have so little, and so few have so much......... cheers Ian...

[mr.punch]

Done,
I agree it is about the tax threshold too.

[shepherd]

Surely off topic now fellas, but to put a slightly different twist on it, Am happy all the noubs sit in front of the goddle box, having their brains turned to mush.... because if they're in the house, they're not out in the woods, I say let them vegetate, LMFAO at all of them saddo's.... and in a world of plenty, why do so many have so little, and so few have so much......... cheers Ian...

2nd that buddy

[Brody Hooper]

Don't get me started on the tax threshold, I thought I was getting a nice pay rise this month due to the threshold increase. Sure enough my payslip showed that I only paid 60p tax for the month (I work part time, annual gross just over £10k) Fantastic I thought, I'm £40 better off each month. Sadly I then realised that my pension increase (I work for the gov), and cut in tax credits means I'm actually £10 worse off every month. :(

[shepherd]

I'm actually £10 worse off every month. :(

what a sickener.... sorry 2 hear tht bud

[Silverback]

I say let them vegetate, LMFAO at all of them saddo's.... and in a world of plenty, why do so many have so little, and so few have so much......... cheers Ian...

T^

[mr.punch]

Don't get me started on the tax threshold, I thought I was getting a nice pay rise this month due to the threshold increase. Sure enough my payslip showed that I only paid 60p tax for the month (I work part time, annual gross just over £10k) Fantastic I thought, I'm £40 better off each month. Sadly I then realised that my pension increase (I work for the gov), and cut in tax credits means I'm actually £10 worse off every month. :(

And you think they never worked that one out first? keep you smiling whilst they rob you blind and then give away that money to the super rich in tax cuts that work, they don't pay into pensions and certainly do not qualify for tax credit.

[snowleopard]

And you think they never worked that one out first? keep you smiling whilst they rob you blind and then give away that money to the super rich in tax cuts that work, they don't pay into pensions and certainly do not qualify for tax credit.

+1 for that!

Joel

[shepherd]

And you think they never worked that one out first? keep you smiling whilst they rob you blind and then give away that money to the super rich in tax cuts that work, they don't pay into pensions and certainly do not qualify for tax credit.

country is on its arse.. the more i think about the state this country is in the more i want to get the hell out.. ill save my pennies and buy a tiny island somewhere and delcare it a new country.... maybe then i could say my banks are goosed and england can pay some of my tax back as a ''bail out'

[snowleopard]

country is on its arse.. the more i think about the state this country is in the more i want to get the hell out.. ill save my pennies and buy a tiny island somewhere and delcare it a new country.... maybe then i could say my banks are goosed and england can pay some of my tax back as a ''bail out'

Very good idea,

Joel

[rawfish111]

Get enough people together and the government could be removed........ as it is........pfft...... we have a nation of pussies......... without a political thought in their heads.



Mass immigration, media manipulation, divide and rule, give the people enough of what they want to keep them happy after creating a self centered thought process through media and marketing, close down all public meeting places such as pubs with a smoking ban.... by them having the guns and the masses thinking that we shouldn't even have a knife............... i could go on.... :(

Couldn't agree more.

This country is rapidly on the decline not least for some of the reasons you mention.

Joels comment below your original is actually quite near the mark too.

Fish, Sapper. Yup!

I do try to avoid politics as there seems to be a 'spine free' policy with our politicians that makes mainstream politics in this country totally bloody worthless. This is what happens when we have a political system sown up by a few who are in it for their own ends. Of the over 600 MP's in this country how many have ever had a proper job? Less than a third, the rest go straight from university into politics.

The Flouride in water and toothpaste is not there for our benefit, as has been said nefarious forces are at work, steadily weakening and diluting the people. Forced immigration being but one mechanism of this.

Just look at the culture of this country and the current knife laws. All English schoolboys used to carry pocket knives. I know I did. Never once though did I stick it in anyone. But introduce enough numbers of an alien culture in an artificial manner and that culture keeps its own way of doing things rather than adapt to the host cultures lifestyle as evidenced by the Nigerian and Jamaican gangs which led to the proliferation in knife crime leading to the current draconian laws.

I won't even start about the mudslimes as that is a different thread, not necessarily suited to this forum.

[rawfish111]

country is on its arse.. the more i think about the state this country is in the more i want to get the hell out.. ill save my pennies and buy a tiny island somewhere and delcare it a new country.... maybe then i could say my banks are goosed and england can pay some of my tax back as a ''bail out'

T^

[Silverback]

Couldn't agree more.

This country is rapidly on the decline not least for some of the reasons you mention.

Joels comment below your original is actually quite near the mark too.

Fish, Sapper. Yup!

I do try to avoid politics as there seems to be a 'spine free' policy with our politicians that makes mainstream politics in this country totally bloody worthless. This is what happens when we have a political system sown up by a few who are in it for their own ends. Of the over 600 MP's in this country how many have ever had a proper job? Less than a third, the rest go straight from university into politics.

The Flouride in water and toothpaste is not there for our benefit, as has been said nefarious forces are at work, steadily weakening and diluting the people. Forced immigration being but one mechanism of this.

Just look at the culture of this country and the current knife laws. All English schoolboys used to carry pocket knives. I know I did. Never once though did I stick it in anyone. But introduce enough numbers of an alien culture in an artificial manner and that culture keeps its own way of doing things rather than adapt to the host cultures lifestyle as evidenced by the Nigerian and Jamaican gangs which led to the proliferation in knife crime leading to the current draconian laws.

I won't even start about the mudslimes as that is a different thread, not necessarily suited to this forum.


strong words...strongly spoken....

[snowleopard]

strong words...strongly spoken....

But very true!

Joel

[rawfish111]

strong words...strongly spoken....

Aye, as I say I try to avoid politics but sometimes the frustration with the system boils over mate.

[Silverback]

Aye, as I say I try to avoid politics but sometimes the frustration with the system boils over mate.

Yup me too...boiled over when i read about the 53 year old Mother and Grandmother who threw herself in front of a truck because she couldnt afford the £20 a week increase in her rent !

[rawfish111]

Yup me too...boiled over when i read about the 53 year old Mother and Grandmother who threw herself in front of a truck because she couldnt afford the £20 a week increase in her rent !

Saddening!

Especially when you consider that within 5 miles of where this poor woman lived there will be a small (or not so) enclave of people who have never paid a damn penny into the system having a free ride at all our expense and laughing at us as they do.

[Silverback]

Saddening!

Especially when you consider that within 5 miles of where this poor woman lived there will be a small (or not so) enclave of people who have never paid a damn penny into the system having a free ride at all our expense and laughing at us as they do.


Yup....... financial cleansing

[snowleopard]

Yup....... financial cleansing


Or not...

[rawfish111]

Yup....... financial cleansing

Sadly

[Silverback]

Sadly

sadly seen it before

[rawfish111]

sadly seen it before

And will again I'm sure. Things have a long way to go before the sheeple wake up and DEMAND change.

[Silverback]

And will again I'm sure.

Yup how long before Enfield becomes similar to GV

[shepherd]

this country is a joke, one of my main concerns is people know the system and know how to manipulate it....and example: i know of a lad in my gym who claims a rdiculous amount of money in benefits and free housing due to the fact he "cant go outside with having panic attacks" he spends his days training in the gym and buying vast amounts of protien shakes and chicken etc... hes huge and were paying for this guy to be a body builder... hes been reported and stuff but nothing has been done...

also the fact this country is seen as a free ride by anyone and everyone who can get in... if you want to come over and work and contribute then i see no issue... but we have enough people living off the state and laughing at us for paying for them without bringing over extra people whos countries are not as soft as us.

ill try not to say much more as i may get in trouble, but it just f***s me off - ill be watching that programme 'skint' tonight with interest after i saw it advertised and a bloke said "i worked hard for 15 years, i think im owed abit back off the social" .... id love him to come to spar with me at my boxing club.. enough said... rant over haha

Matt

[snowleopard]

this country is a joke, one of my main concerns is people know the system and know how to manipulate it....and example: i know of a lad in my gym who claims a rdiculous amount of money in benefits and free housing due to the fact he "cant go outside with having panic attacks" he spends his days training in the gym and buying vast amounts of protien shakes and chicken etc... hes huge and were paying for this guy to be a body builder... hes been reported and stuff but nothing has been done...

also the fact this country is seen as a free ride by anyone and everyone who can get in... if you want to come over and work and contribute then i see no issue... but we have enough people living off the state and laughing at us for paying for them without bringing over extra people whos countries are not as soft as us.

ill try not to say much more as i may get in trouble, but it just f***s me off - ill be watching that programme 'skint' tonight with interest after i saw it advertised and a bloke said "i worked hard for 15 years, i think im owed abit back off the social" .... id love him to come to spar with me at my boxing club.. enough said... rant over haha

Matt

Plus1 for that!

Joel

[Silverback]

ill try not to say much more as i may get in trouble, but it just f***s me off - ill be watching that programme 'skint' tonight with interest after i saw it advertised and a bloke said "i worked hard for 15 years, i think im owed abit back off the social" .... id love him to come to spar with me at my boxing club.. enough said... rant over haha

Matt

I think we shall have to agree to disagree - there are plenty of folks out there that cannot work...for a multitude of reasons, there are many that have paid in for 30 - 50 years into the system that promised to look after them.......or it did when it was taking tax and national insurance. Veterans forgotten and shunned, made to pay for their own medical care and conned out of the decent pensions they were promised. The number of people on the fiddle isnt anywhere near as high as they will have you believe...IDS has admitted to screwing with the statistics...don't believe the hype

[snowleopard]

I think we shall have to agree to disagree - there are plenty of folks out there that cannot work...for a multitude of reasons, there are many that have paid in for 30 - 50 years into the system that promised to look after them.......or it did when it was taking tax and national insurance. Veterans forgotten and shunned, made to pay for their own medical care and conned out of the decent pensions they were promised. The number of people on the fiddle isnt anywhere near as high as they will have you believe...IDS has admitted to screwing with the statistics...don't believe the hype

As long as they give it to the right people!

Joel

[Silverback]

As long as they give it to the right people!

Joel

There's the rub though Joel ? they don't.....not always...and with mental illness especially although the person looks ok on the outside very often the person within is a shell of who they used to be....

Just out of interest...do you pay tax and national insurance ?

[shepherd]

i actually agree with you sapper, my point was i dont think working for 15 years entitles you to hand outs. 30-50 is a different kettle of fish. and i certainly am not saying that people who actually cannot work should be left out to dry. im saying that i know far too many people who CAN work, but WONT.. i work in the nightclub security industry on a weekend, i think you'd be suprise how many of those guys claim for all sorts during the week and get paid cash in hand at the weekend. my issue is with people doing things like that.

[shepherd]

as an add on - in regards to veterns, i certainly was not having a go at them. a close friend of mines dad left the army and his pension was a joke compared to what he thought he would have. he couldnt get any benefits as he had said pension. due to the lack of jobs he forced to go over to iraq to work or he'd loose the house. and he lost he life over there. i know there are people in that position. my issue is with people spongeing off the system not people who actually NEED help.

[Humakt]

ill be watching that programme 'skint' tonight with interest after i saw it advertised and a bloke said "i worked hard for 15 years, i think im owed abit back off the social" .... id love him to come to spar with me at my boxing club.. enough said... rant over haha

Why? Haven't you got anything better to do with your time? So you're just going to watch this programme to make yourself angry, uptight, sanctimonious and indignant?
Doesn't it occur to you that the programme makers will have chosen this one case since it is extreme? And therefore not representative of a great many unemployed people.
Not that that doesn't seem to be enough to stop your violent threats...
Seriously, do something more constructive with your time and avoid watching this TV programme. And if you really must watch it please do your very best to keep your narrow-minded opinions and violent threats to yourself.

[Silverback]

i think you'd be suprise how many of those guys claim for all sorts during the week and get paid cash in hand at the weekend.

Not at all surprised...I used to have a licence myself stats,pats, response, keyholding and CCTV too...the people sponging off the system isn't as high as what the mainstream media would have you believe. They are kicking folks off of ESA who have EVERY RIGHT to be there...whether they have paid in for 10 or 50 years thats what the welfare state was designed to do...and if you want to know the true state of the job market ask some of the guys on here who are applying for 40 jobs a month and not getting them....there are very few jobs out there.....certainly not the 500,000 the government speaks of

and its the employers willing to pay cash in hand that should be punished, if they didnt offer back pocket work then people wouldnt be able to take it would they ? Although it doesnt stop politicians and bankers from taking back pocket payments either does it - double standards eh ?

[Silverback]

Doesn't it occur to you that the programme makers will have chosen this one case since it is extreme? And therefore not representative of a great many unemployed people.


T^ never let the truth get in the way of a good story

[shepherd]

@ sapper, fully aware bud my dad lost his job a couple of years ago - road haulage - and couldnt get a job anyway and has been working as a carer for a year and my mrs has only just got a full time job last month after leaving uni 2 years ago she has been doing part time bar work here and there since. so please dont think im on the outside looking in, as a family we have been directly effected by the lack of jobs aswell.

@humakt - the reason i was interested in seeing the show is because is DOES show the extreme and thats what i have an issue with, obviously my posts have not come across as i would have liked but ill re-read them and see where i have been offensive - apologies if i have offended anyone... but as i thought i had stated my issue is with people who KNOW and ABUSE the system.. not people who cannot find a job, i have the utmost sympathy and support from them. its with people who CAN work and choose to falsify physical and mental problems so they dont have to work and live a life of leisure.
Certainly wouldnt think of myself as narrow minded, nor would i judge you, or anyone for what they do in their spare time. and in regards to these 'violent threats' i thought the above quotation would certainly been seen as banter .... and i wasnt going to talk about the show on a bushcraft forum, no. obviously iv hit a nerve here, and again, i honestly didnt mean to offend anyone and apologies if i have. ill stick to talking about bushcraft on here rather than joining in the off-topic stuff.

[shepherd]

also the fact this country is seen as a free ride by anyone and everyone who can get in... if you want to come over and work and contribute then i see no issue... but we have enough people living off the state and laughing at us for paying for them without bringing over extra people whos countries are not as soft as us.

i think this is where iv not worded things as i meant to - by this i meant by 'people living off the state' i genuinly was refering to the people i have been talking about in all of my posts on this topic people who CAN work but CHOOSE not to and abuse the system not people who cannot get a job and thus are on benefits, i gave examples of my point - never the less, apologies

[Silverback]

@ sapper, fully aware bud my dad lost his job a couple of years ago - road haulage - and couldnt get a job anyway and has been working as a carer for a year and my mrs has only just got a full time job last month after leaving uni 2 years ago she has been doing part time bar work here and there since. so please dont think im on the outside looking in, as a family we have been directly effected by the lack of jobs aswell.


Both my parents are disabled....my missus is mentally ill, and so are a couple of close personal friends....I also have suffered from mental illness in the past...the support net and sympathy isnt there anymore. Sick, disabled and dying people are being victimised and villified by politicians, mainstream media, and it would seem the rapidly growing angry mob falling into line behind them.

This will be my last comment on this thread but to those condsidering making judgements just consider this....what would happen if you were injured in a car accident tomorrow and wake to find out that you're quadriplegic...........

[shepherd]

Both my parents are disabled....my missus is mentally ill, and so are a couple of close personal friends....I also have suffered from mental illness in the past...the support net and sympathy isnt there anymore. Sick, disabled and dying people are being victimised and villified by politicians, mainstream media, and it would seem the rapidly growing angry mob falling into line behind them.

thats horrible to hear, and im sorry. i hope your not including me in this 'angry mob' as i feel i have made myself clear in regards to who i was talking about earlier?

- all i can do is apologise if i have offended, i was refering to people who milk the system but could work, not those who cant work or are trying to get a job. i really should have made that more clear in my first post. apologies again

[rawfish111]

Some good points above. Add to the mix immigrant doctors in govt pay who wilfully lie and twist words so that those who deserve and need these benefits don't get them.

My Dad has ended up with severe diabetes having worked since he was 14 (diagnosed at 64) but when the doctor (immigrant) came by to assess him for his DSA/ESA whatever all his questions were loaded and served to deny him of any help. The questions that didn't get the answers he was looking for the quack just made up. If you happen to be some low life who has never paid into he system and can't even be arsed to learn the language they actually appoint people to help you get as much as you can.

I honestly don't think that any posts on here were ever aimed at those who deserve to be helped nor do I believe that anyone on this forum would begrudge any who are genuinely in need, it is just not that kind of place. However it is very easy to get hugely p****d off and quickly with this sort of debate just over a single word misunderstood, the joy of forums! :guns:

Back on topic, I've shared the original link in a couple of other places I frequent so lets hope we can bag a few more signatures that way.

[Tony1948]

.........Cup of tea any one.

[rawfish111]

No sugar for me cheers Tony...

[shepherd]

irish coffee for me :p

[Sar-ian]

I'm not a political creature, as must politicians are only in it for themselves, but in years gone by families looked after there own. There might be several generations living within spitting distance of each other, with a strong bond of loyalty binding them together, however, consecutive governments from all the major parties, have conspired to under-mine and destroy this cohesion, and foster a greed mentality were the self is more important than the collective, divide and conquer is the mantra by which they rule, and what makes it worse, is the fact that we let them............ cheers Ian.....

[Tony1948]

This post as gone a bit :off-topic:

[Silverback]

This post as gone a bit :off-topic:

Yes I suppose, but politics and petitions are interlinked to be honest as its the politicians who are trying to devalue the traditional artisan crafts. Despite their spin they seem intent on destroying community cohesion....there once was a time where craftsmen like you lot were held in high esteem by the population, your products were valued as objects of quality, back when the butcher, baker and publican were 'pillars' of the community...those days are all but gone and politicians continue to try to erode and pick away at what remnants there are.

A thread such as this was bound to invite politically orientated postings....