British 100/120ltr bergen help request

[MadZ]

Hey hey

I am looking at bergens at the moment and have decided to go for a larger size one

the first i looked at was a 75ltr cadet bergen http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BRITISH-ARMY-COMBAT-CADET-RUCKSACK-BERGEN-65-75-LITRE-NEW-DPM-CAMO-OLIVE-GREEN-/290668581866?pt=UK_SportingGoods_BackpacksRucksack s_Bags_EH&var=&hash=item43ad3293ea this one in the link, looks great and ideal for what i want it for.

the other was the 100/120ltr bergen like this one http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/British-Military-Bergen-Rucksack-120-Litre-Woodland-DPM-Camouflage-/151108817524?pt=UK_Collectables_Militaria_LE&hash=item232ec99274, with a yolk system for making the side pockets into a day sack, very ideal for what i want, as the main compartment is shrinkable with zips and straps.

the only thing i am not to sure about is that, i have found there is a few variants, the one in the link, a long back and short back version also, what i am unsure of is what the difference is between the long and short back, what advantages do they have etc, i only have one surplus store near me and the guy is a bit of a rip of merchant, he was asking for an A grade bergen 100 ltr £150 and i pretty sure its a sub grade A bergen.

so if any of you serving or ex british forces service men/women or anyone in the know could shed some light for me that would be greatly appreciated

cheers

Madz

PS: Mods, if this post is in the wrong place feel free to move it, apologies if it is

[Silverback]

Bergans are designed to be worn with webbing pouches so sit high on the back. Short backs are for folks with short backs, long backs are for...well I'm sure you can figure that out. A long back bergan will probably sit on your back better with the waist belt actually sitting on your hips. Its a heavy but bombproof bit of kit. The webtex bergan doesn't come close IMHO. A quality alternative is the berghaus vulcan

[MadZ]

Sapper, your all over my posts today greatly appreciated

i'm 6'3" so a long back is going to be the option for me then, are they longer and thinner? compared to a short back version then? sorry for all the questions but want as much info as possible cant afford to waist money, they look very similar.

ah yeah webtex had a few bits from them in the past still 50/50 on some of there products i got, survival tin is good in my opinion but no where near great.

had a look at the burghaus vulcan and for that money i would have to say no, due to it being a civi equivalent although its the only bergan on the everest base camp website kit list, can imagine it will not take the abuse a surplus bergan can stand upto and has already endured, also from what i have read the older style bergan the ones in olive green where originally made by berghaus, the weight thing is not an issue really, i'll have to make my back and legs stronger if i find it heavy, one thing i did notice though they dont come with a chest strap, its no bother as i could add one on at a later date if its an issue, i might have to go see the dreaded surplus dealer to get an idea of sizing and things.

are they something you would recommend?

cheers

Madz

[Chubbs]

I have the army issue long back Bergen with side pouches and it is bomb proof. You forget about how heavy it is once you have owned it for a while and it packs an obscene amount of kit. To give you an idea how big the pouches are, I can fill one with my billy can, Crusader Cup and cooker, and kettle with room to stuff plenty of other bits and bobs in the rest of it. The main compartment holds my TW Hammock and Tarp, homemade underquilt, Softie trousers and jacket, food, water, topquilt, and everything else that would be needed for a comfortable camp.

[MadZ]

Thanks Chubbs your input is greatly appreciated

cheers

MadZ

[Silverback]

are they something you would recommend?

cheers

Madz


Yessir...I have a long back 120 in DPM. Usually comes out when I have lots to carry but only for shortish walks in circa 5 - 8 miles then gets ground dumped at camp in favour of a shoulder bag / daypack.

The Berghaus Vulcan/Crusader/Cyclops came before the issue bergan and is what the issue bergan is based on so dont dismiss it offhand - berghaus is quality kit, for example this weekend I was using a 30 year old Cyclops Roc which is still going strong.

[biker-bri]

Older berghaus bags were bombproof - not so sure about the newer versions
Cheers Bri

[Silverback]

got both Bri....have a berghaus sac bought in 2005 went through lots and lots including being dropped out of a helicopter and still going strong

[MadZ]

went and had a look in the surplus shop and they have one i tried out and looked over, i'm sold on one now, i could get all my gear in there no problem and it felt real nice on the back and shoulders to be fair.

so what ill do is get one with the side pouches and then get some dry bag liners for it and a camel back pack or two so i can fit them between the pouches, not forgetting the yolk system for the pouches, seen a 4 season sleeping bag in a stuff sack for cheap to, so that a hammock and basha will fill one pouch, the cooking gear/pots the other leaving loads a room for the rest of the kit and spare clothes.

roll on the end of september

thanks for all the advice

cheers

MadZ

[David_JAFO]

hello,
I'm with Sapper's choice. I've still got in use both my SAS/Para Issue Bergen with outer metal frame & a Cyclops ROC 72Ltr in my kit store. I use for a day sack my two Bergen zip together DPM side pouches, which I had 'special made' shoulder straps by SASS, great combination BTW & yes Berghaus, we used their Bergen's 1980's right through Service into the 1990's, as a Civie there after to date UK, NATO BFPO N.I, Gulf, & Bosnia. Old adage just because you have a 100L Bergen doesn't mean you have to fill it & carry it to full capacity.. 72Ltr I'd say is ample. 1 set of clothes on 'dry set' carried :wink:
Regards
David

"So what ill do is get one with the side pouches and then get some dry bag liners for it and a camel back pack or two so i can fit them between the pouches, not forgetting the yolk system for the pouches, seen a 4 season sleeping bag in a stuff sack for cheap to, so that a hammock and basha will fill one pouch, the cooking gear/pots the other leaving loads a room for the rest of the kit and spare clothes."

T^

[ian c]

I have the old issue green bergan and it is a long back I am 5' 11" (180 cms) and fits well without webbing and the waist belt sits on my hips I also have the short back in green which I used to use when wearing webbing, other wise I have a few other bergans and have found the issue ones are bomb proof unlike the civvi ones that I have.

[Arthurwaythere]

Hi
Hope this helps-

http://www.ex-mod-textiles.com/shop/hardware.html

[MadZ]

Hi
Hope this helps-

http://www.ex-mod-textiles.com/shop/hardware.html

Cheers for the link dude, much appreciated
welcome to the forum, it is customary to pop into the intro thread and post there, and have a look through the forum rules, if you wouldn't mind T^

[Big T]

Not bad prices there, has anyone dealt with ex-mod-textiles? Could be after one of these myself...........

[Arthurwaythere]

Hi Big T.
Firstly I have no connection to ex-mod textiles other than having been a regular customer for some time. Ex-mod is a joint venture concern with the MOD and in having had many purchases I have never had a problem. Would say it is well worth hunting about the site as sometimes you find some gems tucked away in odd sections. Strangest thing I found was HMS Ark Royal aircraft carrier for sale, with an add to cart button. No price was given and after some thought decided it may have been outside my budget. Still was very tempted to see what happened if I was to click on the button.

[roberts]

If you haven't bought yet have a look see if you could get a berghaus cyclops second hand as these were the model sack that they copied the plce off and IMHO a lot better sack

[Silverback]

If you haven't bought yet have a look see if you could get a berghaus cyclops second hand as these were the model sack that they copied the plce off and IMHO a lot better sack

agree....got one myself...30 years old if its a day still going strong

[Adam Savage]

I'll agree totally with Mr Sapper. The long back Bergen is the one to go for out of all the military gear (genuine or repro). The long pack will still feel like it is sitting high up on your back though, for the reason Sapper mentions, without webbing pouches to sit on.
I use the 120 long back, and I'm 5'10". It's my pack of choice, due to the vast amount of usable space compared to other "supposedly" 120L packs.
Was out over the weekend with it actually, fully loaded and wet it weighed in at 31kgs (far too much kit :p ), but it felt comfy for the 1.5 mile walk to the site.

[Bushtickler]

I've got to be honest with you say this pack would be the last pack I'd rush out to buy. Webbing, no webbing, hippo pad, cushion, whatever, it makes no difference. It hard as nails, you could fill it with a crushed car and drop it from space and it would dust off and be carried as it was designed. It's just nowhere near as comfy as say the highlander version (BJ & youngun of bury on here enjoy them). Much better back support & hip support. Half the price and a nice colour green. Much better balance. Adequate zips and a rain cover attached to the top pocket part of the pack.
On the PLCE Bergen the day pack and yoke set up is used only by people who have invested a bit too much in the bag. It's not that good and it's likely to stay on the Bergen. It was my first supersize pack after researching lots, review after review, wanting to stretch my sterling.
Even after cutting weight I knew it wouldn't be my last pack. The same kit popped into my second hand karrimoor makes the Bergen feel like a boulder in comparison. (It does weigh the same as a small Honda). It can actually become painful over distances of a few miles upwards. I'm a nice chap and if anyone who I cared about were to go on a long march with me I'd let them have mine and I'd take the PLCE Bergen because they wouldn't come again.

Tough, durable, trusted. But:
Not designed with comfort in mind.
Over priced, poor poor support in comparison to others.
Tendency to fill it with the world.

Just my opinion

[Adam Savage]

Really? I find the Bergen one of the most comfortable packs to wear. My Karrimor's are no where near as comfy. The Bergen sits nice and high, whereas a lot of backs can sit too low. Maybe it's because I have the long back version, maybe the secret is in the packing of it, but to say they aren't designed for comfort isn't entirely true. They designed them to be carried for long distances, with a lot of weight inside them. ;)

[Bushtickler]

Really? I find the Bergen one of the most comfortable packs to wear. My Karrimor's are no where near as comfy. The Bergen sits nice and high, whereas a lot of backs can sit too low. Maybe it's because I have the long back version, maybe the secret is in the packing of it, but to say they aren't designed for comfort isn't entirely true. They designed them to be carried for long distances, with a lot of weight inside them. ;)



So are suitcases but you wouldn't want to go up a mountain with one ;)
I'll fetch a bag of bricks to the next meet and we'll draw straws for testers. After 2 laps round the tree you'll change your mind. Must be a few versions cos the two PLCE bergens I've used are solid no doubt but I'd be lying if I said they were comfy. I feel like I've had new shoulders, hips and spine since swapping. Just my opinion ;)

[Silverback]

I don't mind the PLCE bergan....it is after all only a Berghaus Vulcan....mind you when the old choices were the GS Bergan or the 58 large pack......

[Adam Savage]

So are suitcases but you wouldn't want to go up a mountain with one ;)
I'll fetch a bag of bricks to the next meet and we'll draw straws for testers. After 2 laps round the tree you'll change your mind. Must be a few versions cos the two PLCE bergens I've used are solid no doubt but I'd be lying if I said they were comfy. I feel like I've had new shoulders, hips and spine since swapping. Just my opinion ;)

There are a couple of versions, not sure exactly what they all were though. Maybe I got lucky lol

Opinions are good things mate. It would be a boring world if we were all the same ;)


I don't mind the PLCE bergan....it is after all only a Berghaus Vulcan....mind you when the old choices were the GS Bergan or the 58 large pack......

The GS wasn't the most comfortable thing in the world, especially with the tubular frame attached. Can't say as I've ever tested the 58 properly though.

[ian c]

I got a GS bergan as soon as I was able to so I did not have to use the larry large pack, I did take the frame off it and pad the shoulder straps though.

[David_JAFO]

hello,
I've still got my Forces Berghaus O.G 'Cyclops' 72Litre from the 1980's had 2 gave the spare away to a friend a few years ago, still in great condition. Just picked up adding to my ever growing MTP (Multi Terrain Pattern) kit a set of PLCE Karrimor side pockets I can use the straps from my other DPM PLCE pouches with these as a day sack. As Sapper commented, "when the old choices were the GS Bergan or the 58 large pack......" most of our Troop ditched these for personal kit Bergen's.
Regards
David

[Bushtickler]

Hey hey

I am looking at bergens at the moment and have decided to go for a larger size one

the first i looked at was a 75ltr cadet bergen http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BRITISH-ARMY-COMBAT-CADET-RUCKSACK-BERGEN-65-75-LITRE-NEW-DPM-CAMO-OLIVE-GREEN-/290668581866?pt=UK_SportingGoods_BackpacksRucksack s_Bags_EH&var=&hash=item43ad3293ea this one in the link, looks great and ideal for what i want it for.

the other was the 100/120ltr bergen like this one http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/British-Military-Bergen-Rucksack-120-Litre-Woodland-DPM-Camouflage-/151108817524?pt=UK_Collectables_Militaria_LE&hash=item232ec99274, with a yolk system for making the side pockets into a day sack, very ideal for what i want, as the main compartment is shrinkable with zips and straps.

the only thing i am not to sure about is that, i have found there is a few variants, the one in the link, a long back and short back version also, what i am unsure of is what the difference is between the long and short back, what advantages do they have etc, i only have one surplus store near me and the guy is a bit of a rip of merchant, he was asking for an A grade bergen 100 ltr £150 and i pretty sure its a sub grade A bergen.

so if any of you serving or ex british forces service men/women or anyone in the know could shed some light for me that would be greatly appreciated

cheers

Madz

PS: Mods, if this post is in the wrong place feel free to move it, apologies if it is

Just examples of support
11060
11061

Like I say PLCE - hard as nails, won't let you down.
100% certain there are much comfier solutions though. I have a good few close friends currently serving in the forces (15yrs +) and not one loves the 'comfort' side of em really (nowadays - after upgrading).

Don't know if you're attending the Northern Soul meet next weekend or not but if you are or are anywhere abouts you are more than welcome to lend a couple of packs incl the PLCE 120l bergen (and hippo pad/webbing/day yoke etc) and one similar to the sabre sf for a month or two so you can judge for yourself before shelling out. (Let me know if you do).

Comparing the two it's like comparing a Tank to a Range Rover. Sure the tank will carry the load and get you there but the Range Rover will get you there in comfort and quicker if kept right.

I like long walks before wildcamping so distance may be the deciding factor.

[Silverback]

Hmmmm just realised the OP is 6 months ago.....NECROMANCER ! Not the oldest thread ever to be revived but still

[Bushtickler]

Hmmmm just realised the OP is 6 months ago.....NECROMANCER ! Not the oldest thread ever to be revived but still


"Silly billy....the chest straps are adjusted here, here and here...."
11062