Ray grills Bear!

[GaryBeaner]

Ummmm Couldn't think where to put this link, but let's say it made me chuckle for quite a while! http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1057485/Ray-Mears-IS-tougher-admits-Bear-Grylls.html

:ashamed:

[CanadianMike]

Wow, that's brutal. And humble too on Bear's part (news to me that he was a 'Terrie', always advertised he was a full flown SAS member til he got injured as I recall), always liked Bear and the balls he had to do the things he did, but knew it was more info based as opposed to reality, still, he DID do stuff (showmanship) that would make even the tough guys in the audience revolt in disgust.

[Ashley Cawley]

Interviewed by Radio Times earlier this year, Mears laughed out loud when asked if he watched Grylls's show for tips. He said: 'Yes – on how not to make television programmes! As far as I am concerned these people are just showmen.

'I welcome competition, but I want to see real experts, not Boy Scouts pretending to be.'


He isn't dissing the Scouts, he's just pointing out that they're not yet experts & neither is Teddy-Bear!

There's a misconception that he actually teaches survival, he doesn't most of the time he'd get you killed if you followed his advice... (hence why I don't promote him on my website) it's well and truly set-up/Fake and just "entertainment" look...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VefG-FuMYA

If you think that is the best way to survive or is even real, well be my guest to try it.

[Humakt]

Who cares?
Really?

[Ivan]

Wheres the back pack he climbed up with ? oh dear dont see any point to that excersise, and think of the poor old cameraman he must have gone up with all that equipment, hes the true hero/nutter. ps. ash perhaps we will make a flag or something out of that jacket.

[Martin]

:rolleyes:

Martin

[Fletching]

I remember meeting BG a few years ago when the company I was working for at the time (Craghoppers) were building a website for his brand. He's a nice enough chap, but as far as his 'survival' shows go, I think he's a reckless idiot. I remember watching one episode where he was high on the edge of a ravine and describing how to use vines to climb down into an eighty-foot sinkhole to reach the river below, all the time saying "this is extremely dangerous". I just sat there thinking "erm, don't do it then". There was a path leading down to the river he was trying to reach right next to the sink hole in question. Presumably for us mere 'not ready for extremely dangerous' folk (a.k.a. sensible people). :)

[comanighttrain]

I do remember one show where he climbed down a ravine, turned around and said "I'm alone down here, I don't know how to get out" and i was thinking... but your not alone? the camera crew is down there. Guy struck me as being full of it.

[Ashley Cawley]

Who cares? Really?Good point ;) ... but it gets on my pip when people try to compare what you do to the same as "that bear grylls chap on TV"... and more importantly you see impressionable youngsters who know no better thinking he's giving out good survival advice - when he could be endangering them should they ever rely on his advice in a true survival situation. - All for what? Profiteering entertainment.


... ash perhaps we will make a flag or something out of that jacket.
I wouldn't worry Ivan - there's plenty of people who visit this site who like to watch Bear Grylls for his entertainment value and at the end of the day it's clothing so I think it'll still be a popular prize.

[Humakt]

Good point ;) ... and more importantly you see impressionable youngsters who know no better thinking he's giving out good survival advice - when he could be endangering them should they ever rely on his advice in a true survival situation. - All for what? Profiteering entertainment.

I don't buy that argument.
When I was younger I used to love watching Flashing Blades. And the Star Wars films. And Indiana Jones. When we went out to play we'd do all sorts of things - jumping ravines, climbing trees, all those kinds of things we'd seen in those films.
Should they have been scorned and admonished because they incited kids to do dangerous things?
Of course not.
In fact, it's a good thing we DID watch those films - kids should push boundaries, take risks and, yes - hurt themselves occasionally doing such things. And that's all that Bear Grylls is - vicarious entertainment. People claiming he's irresponsible are taking themselves and their hobby too seriously.
He's exciting to kids and provokes their imaginations, their games and their enjoyment of the world around them.
He's no more relevant to bushcraft than Indiana Jones, so I don't know why people get so hot under the collar about him.

[Martin]

I don't buy that argument.
When I was younger I used to love watching Flashing Blades. And the Star Wars films. And Indiana Jones. When we went out to play we'd do all sorts of things - jumping ravines, climbing trees, all those kinds of things we'd seen in those films.
Should they have been scorned and admonished because they incited kids to do dangerous things?
Of course not.
In fact, it's a good thing we DID watch those films - kids should push boundaries, take risks and, yes - hurt themselves occasionally doing such things. And that's all that Bear Grylls is - vicarious entertainment. People claiming he's irresponsible are taking themselves and their hobby too seriously.
He's exciting to kids and provokes their imaginations, their games and their enjoyment of the world around them.
He's no more relevant to bushcraft than Indiana Jones, so I don't know why people get so hot under the collar about him.

Couldn't have put it better myself. I enjoy watching The Bear!!!

Martin

[comanighttrain]

I don't buy that argument.
When I was younger I used to love watching Flashing Blades. And the Star Wars films. And Indiana Jones. When we went out to play we'd do all sorts of things - jumping ravines, climbing trees, all those kinds of things we'd seen in those films.
Should they have been scorned and admonished because they incited kids to do dangerous things?
Of course not.
In fact, it's a good thing we DID watch those films - kids should push boundaries, take risks and, yes - hurt themselves occasionally doing such things. And that's all that Bear Grylls is - vicarious entertainment. People claiming he's irresponsible are taking themselves and their hobby too seriously.
He's exciting to kids and provokes their imaginations, their games and their enjoyment of the world around them.
He's no more relevant to bushcraft than Indiana Jones, so I don't know why people get so hot under the collar about him.

I was thinking similarly on the bus until i ran into a very good parallel.

I help people lose/gain weight using realistic and scientifically founded methods. I get very annoyed when some hippie type comes a long, fills peoples heads with nonsense about crystals, about meal times, about meal sizes and about fat being toxic. It sends people off down the wrong road and in the end they end up spending more money and achieving nothing.

Similarly if I followed Ray's instructions in a real survival situation I'd probably be a bit worse for wear but alright when finally found. If I followed Bear's I'd probably be found at the bottom of a ravine/vomiting/dehydrated/poisoned/breath smelling like bear poo

[Humakt]

Similarly if I followed Ray's instructions in a real survival situation I'd probably be a bit worse for wear but alright when finally found. If I followed Bear's I'd probably be found at the bottom of a ravine/vomiting/dehydrated/poisoned/breath smelling like bear poo

I'm amazed that you think that watching Ray paddling up and down the Canadian rivers, or sitting with a group of Australian aborigines, for one hour a week, the basis for survival should you find yourself in such a random situation.

In reality, I'll think you'll find that Ray's advice will stand you in no greater stead than Bear's - assuming that you were not 'into' bushcraft (which, by definition of you being on this forum, you are into). The 'man-on-the-street' is no better served by Ray than Bear - these skills have to be practiced, not just watched on the idiot box! THAT is what will save you - practicing these skills.
As someone interested in bushcraft, you probably get more from Ray. Which we all do. But it is your interest in bushcraft and wilderness techniques (doubtless inspired by Ray), and your interest in practicing and experimenting in them, that will save you in a survival situation. NOT who you watch.

[comanighttrain]

That is true

[Ben Casey]

It is all just a state of your mind I think if you want to survive you will :)

[Skate]

At the end of the day we are all survivalists because we are alive :)

[comanighttrain]

I read on some experiment that was done with rats, they put the rats in a container and filled it with water. They consistantly found that the rats which survived often survived the next runnings of the same experiment: Concluding that some rats are just geared to survive, some with die. We are the same in many ways... Not to be gruesome or unkind but there are many examples during the Nazi persecutions. Some of the persecuted fought til the end, some managed to escape and the others more or less did not fight. Its a horrid example....

[CanadianMike]

Interviewed by Radio Times earlier this year, Mears laughed out loud when asked if he watched Grylls's show for tips. He said: 'Yes – on how not to make television programmes! As far as I am concerned these people are just showmen.

'I welcome competition, but I want to see real experts, not Boy Scouts pretending to be.'




He isn't dissing the Scouts, he's just pointing out that they're not yet experts & neither is Teddy-Bear!

There's a misconception that he actually teaches survival, he doesn't most of the time he'd get you killed if you followed his advice... (hence why I don't promote him on my website) it's well and truly set-up/Fake and just "entertainment" look
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VefG-FuMYA

If you think that is the best way to survive or is even real, well be my guest to try it.

I'm a big chicken for heights, more so the falling part, so therefore I would have just walked the 200ft to the hill where the bridge starts and walked up it. :)..

[JEEP]

I can fully understand that Ray gets annoyed when compared to Bear.

Ray's books and television shows are based on years of hard studies, personal experience gained through hard work and knowledge obtained from traveling all over the world, learning from indegenious people and skilled survavilists all over the world. Ray is a scholar.

Bear is a trained soldier, but foremost an extreme sportsman - not a survivalist. A survivalist doesn't deliberately put himself in danger "just for kicks". When Bear presents his stunts as survival techniques, he misinforms people that doesn't know any better - making it a lot harder for people like Ray to do their job; teach actual survival techniques.

Ultimately; if you do not know any better (most people doesn't) - and you end up in a surviuval situation - trying to follow the "advice" given by Bear, you may very well end up hurting yourself and others badly or even get killed.

I can easily understand how a person like Ray could see it as his duty to strongly denounce the "techniques" shown by Bear, when asked directly to compare them to his own teachings.
I experinced the same thing, back in the days when I taught western martial arts; people would come up to me, asking me what I thought about this or that stagefighting group, failing to understand the fundamental diffrence between martial arts and stagefight.

[MartiniDave]

I remeber cringing when I saw that stunt on the railway bridge, thinking some naive kid is going to die after seeing this and thinking they can do it!

Dave

[Kiltie]

Its all forward planning with Ray and Bear, this situation is set up for a commercial purpose, In the spring of 2013 they are going to join forces for TV
Bear is going to demonstrate how to get yourself into dire and mind numbingly stupid predicaments-then Ray is going to come along and demonstrate how to "cook bear- in a traditional way"

laughed til I had tears in my eyes after reading Comanighttrains insight
"Similarly if I followed Ray's instructions in a real survival situation I'd probably be a bit worse for wear but alright when finally found. If I followed Bear's I'd probably be found at the bottom of a ravine/vomiting/dehydrated/poisoned/breath smelling like bear poo"
:happy-clapping:

[klause]

To start with Ray and Bear are both equally entertaining in their own right, Ray calm and informative whilst Bear is exciting and reckless.
Both of these presenters, (and lets face it thats what they are TV presenters), highlight getting out and getting involved in nature which can only be a good thing.
My boys love watching Bear whilst i preferre Ray, but if anyone, on watching Bear, went out and jumped off a revine to their death then they probibly weren't the sharpest of cats in the first place.
I have to say that 'Uncle Ray's comments on Bear seemed a little insensitive boardering on the imature, there was absolutely no need to act/speak in the manner he did. More power to Bear for acting in a gentlemanly fashion by not rising to the 'uncalled for' words by Ray (can't believe he mentioned the scouts).

It is nice to see that not everybody who went to Eaton ended up a banker or politition.


Stop being childish and work together, that's what we want!

[Edwin]

Just to point out that as he mentioned The Scouts that they still don't let atheists join who won't lie. Seems about par for the course for someone who is economical with the truth in his programmes.

[ghost]

Wow, that's brutal. And humble too on Bear's part (news to me that he was a 'Terrie', always advertised he was a full flown SAS member til he got injured as I recall), always liked Bear and the balls he had to do the things he did, but knew it was more info based as opposed to reality, still, he DID do stuff (showmanship) that would make even the tough guys in the audience revolt in disgust.

Chris Ryan was also 23 mob, and if you consider that neither he nor Bear had units to go back to they are probably more full flown regiment than 22. As for all the Bear bashing i think the guy should be commended for what he is doing with the scouts. He is making a lot of dreams come true with his appearances up and down the country. If he inspires todays youth then he is doing a good job. The reason i believe a lot of people mention bear when they ask about bushcraft because he seems to be on the TV a bit more at the minute than ray Mears. I personally enjoy watching bear and his antics its very entertaining!

[Aaron Rushton]

Just to point out that as he mentioned The Scouts that they still don't let atheists join who won't lie. Seems about par for the course for someone who is economical with the truth in his programmes.

eeerr, what decade have you been living in? i have been a in scouting for 7 years and am now an explorer scout. im atheist, and i think you might be living in the 1950's as anyone can join scouts. there are both christian, muslim, jewish and aethiest scouts in my local scout and explorer group.

[Aaron Rushton]

and i can;t help but laugh at the whole OTTness of bears shows. i think ray is great for teaching skills, but lets face it, he is a presenter, even if he is a very learned one. hey how bout lest stroud? he dosent have any camera crew, but most likely gets a few months training before being dumped in his next survival sitation with his cameras.

[Edwin]

eeerr, what decade have you been living in? i have been a in scouting for 7 years and am now an explorer scout. im atheist, and i think you might be living in the 1950's as anyone can join scouts. there are both christian, muslim, jewish and aethiest scouts in my local scout and explorer group.

And what oath did you take? Not the Outlander as it isn't recognised. Or do you kind of sneak around the subject If you have been a scout since 2004 then most certainly you took an oath you did not believe in. Or what Promise did you make? Or was and is everybody wrong to think that the Scouts did require the recognition of a Supreme being, suitably modified for Hindus?

"Other questions related to external publicity, Bear’s activities and whether or not atheists should be permitted to be leaders." From the Grinning Like a Cheshire Cat section on the Scouting Association's website. Any reference to the Scout Promise includes duty to God.

[CanadianMike]

In most cases Les gets to a location and spends a single week with the indiginous people to learn their culture, how they survive, hunt, live and about the environment before he does it for a week on his own. That is balls!

[klause]

In most cases Les gets to a location and spends a single week with the indiginous people to learn their culture, how they survive, hunt, live and about the environment before he does it for a week on his own. That is balls!

Yeh i like that guy he propper roughs it !

[comanighttrain]

I just read this article http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/celebritynews/2980464/Bear-Grylls-admits-television-rival-Ray-Mears-is-much-tougher-than-him.html

Can't help but feel that although Ray is right he is making himself look like a bit of a jerk....

[KERNOW KELT]

The question I ask myself is.... Who would I / you want to be stuck on a desert Island with?

Should'nt take long to answer that one ?!

[jbrown14]

I think I'd rather be stuck with either one of my friends or even better yet, my wife. Neither Bear nor Ray are as pretty as she. (Les has too much facial hair to even be in the running...)

[comanighttrain]

I wouldn't want my girlfriend there.

"It's too hot"

"why haven't you finished the raft yet"

"you never give me compliments"

"why should I make dinner? You spend all day messing around raft building while I was cleaning you should be cooking!"

[jbrown14]

You bring up a very valid point, comanighttrain. I bow to your superior intellect. In light of my recent change of heart, I'd like to change my answer to: my brother, Joe. He and I have talked since we were kids about doing some type of "survivorman" trip together, and a desert island would definitely qualify.

[Edwin]

A ravishing blonde, if she had a chip pan.

[Notredame11211]

Interviewed by Radio Times earlier this year, Mears laughed out loud when asked if he watched Grylls's show for tips. He said: 'Yes – on how not to make television programmes! As far as I am concerned these people are just showmen.

'I welcome competition, but I want to see real experts, not Boy Scouts pretending to be.'


He isn't dissing the Scouts, he's just pointing out that they're not yet experts & neither is Teddy-Bear!

There's a misconception that he actually teaches survival, he doesn't most of the time he'd get you killed if you followed his advice... (hence why I don't promote him on my website) it's well and truly set-up/Fake and just "entertainment" look...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VefG-FuMYA

If you think that is the best way to survive or is even real, well be my guest to try it.

Wow........ Bear Grylls is an idiot.

[therealmow]

http://www.daughtersoftiresias.org/bearwiki/Bad_Advice_and_Inaccuracies

[Marvell]

The real answer: Joy (my gf)

The TV personality answer: Les Stroud (less the harmonica)

Quite interesting answer: Stephen Fry

[luresalive]

That's an old link in that first post, been doing the rounds for years..you can't really compare Bear and Ray, one is entertainment one is factual, see them both for what they represent and you can watch them without contradiction, bear is a decent bloke and has a genuine love of people and a great sense of humour, ray is stoic and serious... both are good at what they portray, gotta admit much as it may pain some people, I like Bear...

[bushcraft4u]

Bear is great, but i feel he actually might get you killed..lol. Les hiddins bushtucker man would be good but it would have to be Ray.

[Fuutpad]

I'm loving this debate... Bear is just mindless entertainment not to be taken seriously. He is put into a situation and has to find a way out staged or otherwise. What i found funny was the 30lb chain he was carrying... WHY? Did he pick it up as something that may come in handy for snaring rabbits? It would have been even funnier if he had found a deralict junkyard (memories of the A-team come flooding back). Ray on the other hand is educational, he knows what is has to do and teaches as he goes.
I am guilty of watching and liking both for entertainment value but I also know what to take seriously. at the end of the day it means different things to each of us and we make of it what we will.

[bigzee]

Bear grylls - "he doan arf make oi laarf" (as you west country boys would say). My eight year old girl makes sure we watch him in the correct context: "Daaaaad.........born idiot's on!"

It's quite enjoyable sitting in the comfort of one's living room watching bare girls stressing and grimacing his way around the world, as we point out the error of his every move. He dug up a moist root and hung it on his pack to dry in the sun (to rehydrate later with a knowing wink to camera). He then walked into the middle of the Dakota badlands, where he announced that all water was undrinkable. DOH!

[jonajuna]

all i know is that both of them, in thier individual way have done more to get kids out playing in the big outdoors than just about any other tv "light entertainment" in the last 30 years

why someone who regards himself so highly as Ray Mears does, feels the need to be so derogatory about another person, is beyond me

but then, the more i read and learn about him, the more conceited i believe him to be

but if i have to compare, learning that i can extract water to drink from elephant dung is far more use in a survival situation than watching an hour of someone making a birch bark canoe

on the other hand, i have all of rays books and only one of bears (facing up) but would suggest neither of their book catalogues offer the same level of survival education that lofty's sas survival does

and Myke Hawke is harder than both of them, and your dad :P

[FrenchBen]

Woaw that's amazing!
There are much contradictory points made in here, but I found myself agreeing with almost each one :D How's that possible? You all guys have some common sense.

My opinion 'bout all this is instead of insulting Bear, Ray had better have reminded the interviewer he and Bear have completely different goals, not doing the same job actually. Well yeah they're both TV presenters. But their relationship to the outdoors is fundamentally divergent.
One is an advocate of bushcraft in its noblest form (melting in nature, kindly using it, loving it actually, learning and developing age-old traditions) while the other is the spokesman of toughest kind of survival : he doesn't intend to learn anyone what you can do out of doors but how far you as a human being may go to survive. Well that's much more entertainment. But I see some educational purposes in Bear's performance too...

My two cents... or two pennies (or shillings? I don't know really... ;))

[Edwin]

Why shouldn't Mears have given an honest opinion? The "truth is relative" PC guff annoys me. One should give one's honest opinion and that is never insulting. It may be uncomfortable for the recipient but they have to live with it. I don't even think that Grylls is that entertaining, wielding the chain was downright boring.

In regard to that episode, I am sure someone has asked and answered this before but if the viaduct was spanning a valley (which is why one has a viaduct) then why couldn't he have walked up one of the slopes it went to? If getting up was his objective.

[jonajuna]

Giving an opinion about an person while not considering the impact on them is at best thoughtless and at worse highly arrogant.... "only i can be so right, so like it or lump it"

honesty doesn't have to be rude

criticism can be constructive

ray could've spoken in a manner that showed him in a better light

Myke Hawke is still the 'ardest by far

;)

[Edwin]

<Giving an opinion about an person while not considering the impact on them is at best thoughtless and at worse highly arrogant.... "only i can be so right, so like it or lump it">

There is something going about where people are being regarded as delicate flowers with sensibilities that must not be upset. partly lawyer driven where roughty-tufty merchant bankers and even lawyers sue their employers for millions for "constructive" dismissal following "hurtful" remarks. Couple this with the relativism that says that everybody's opinion is of equal weight regardless of evidence or talent and we have the mess we are in now. Book and science critics are being gagged because of the dangers of a lawsuit and psuedo-science is running rampant.

Anf we mustn't foget the cop-out of bad television programmes that "it's only entertainment, a romp" to excuse improbable plots or bad direction.

Fortunately, out in the bush natural selection still works.

[Fletching]

Just to take things back to the actual title of this thread...

Ray would actually grill Bear, probably using a bit of wild garlic and some delightfully aromatic edible tubers, whereas Bear would probably just eat Ray raw. Filthy savage.

[Ben Casey]

Just to take things back to the actual title of this thread...

Ray would actually grill Bear, probably using a bit of wild garlic and some delightfully aromatic edible tubers, whereas Bear would probably just eat Ray raw. Filthy savage.
I had my Bear survivor trousers on yesterday and I survived LOL

[comanighttrain]

I had my Bear survivor trousers on yesterday and I survived LOL

Do they smell of urine when you get them or do you have to do that before wearing them?

[Ben Casey]

Do they smell of urine when you get them or do you have to do that before wearing them?

normally do it with them on but I do need to inventa tube to fit on to a bottle then I could bottle it all for later LMAO

[jonajuna]

<Giving an opinion about an person while not considering the impact on them is at best thoughtless and at worse highly arrogant.... "only i can be so right, so like it or lump it">

There is something going about where people are being regarded as delicate flowers with sensibilities that must not be upset. partly lawyer driven where roughty-tufty merchant bankers and even lawyers sue their employers for millions for "constructive" dismissal following "hurtful" remarks. Couple this with the relativism that says that everybody's opinion is of equal weight regardless of evidence or talent and we have the mess we are in now. Book and science critics are being gagged because of the dangers of a lawsuit and psuedo-science is running rampant.

Anf we mustn't foget the cop-out of bad television programmes that "it's only entertainment, a romp" to excuse improbable plots or bad direction.

Fortunately, out in the bush natural selection still works.

as someone who works with less than desirable sections of the public on a daily basis, i am far from sensitive, nor do i call a blackboard a chalkboard or talk about the rights of LGB&TG people over the mainstream

its not about political correctness, its simply about good manners, maturity and having some adult discretion in the language used

the natural selection evident in pubs, warrants speaking with some courtesy

Bear certainly didn't act in a "delicate flower" way, he acted (as the reports would suggest) in a manner that made Rays comments reflect badly on one person, himself

btw, as an (ex)union official, i can tell you that a constructive dismissal case in this country is very difficult to win, despite what the Daily Fail would have people believe

[Edwin]

I was referring to those unable to take criticism, I knew nothing about you but now we know that you serve the public and were a union official which is much the same as myself, 42 year in public service and elected to NALGO local branch office. But this is irrelevant.

If you haven't read about cases in our "The City" and in New York of big claims made by ex-employees of financial institutions of very successful people who felt slighted or might not have got the promotion they, in their own mind, deserved, then you can't be reading your non Daily Fail closely enough. I was not referring to the "normal" constructive dismissal cases.

But to return to the topic there is no reason that Mears should not have given an answer, presumably honest, about Grylls performances. Circumlocution makes poor television.

I remember a management course where the scenario we had to work through was that of telling an employee that he smelt and should wash. Terribly difficult but the message was that honesty was best, done discretely but the message to X had to be "you smell and must do something about it". I did actually have to do this, not to an employee, but to occasional users of the library where I worked. Beating about the bush never worked and was no kindness, straight talking did work because you were talking to them as an adult not treating them as some kind of half-wit.

[Martin]

I think this thread has probably run its course. I hope everyone agrees, if not drop me a PM. :)

If you think it's appropriate, please feel free to start a new 'merit's of constructive dismissal' thread in the 'Employment Law' section. ;)

Martin