My wood cups crack.

[FishyFolk]

Over the years I have owned many a wood bowl, cup and kuksa. What they all have in common is that sooner or later...but mostly sooner they crack.
I have never made one myself. I can just about muster the patience for making a spoon. So I probably never will.

That means purchasing, and these things never come cheap. After all, a good one was made by someone having the patience I sorely lack.

Now I feel the need for another try. I am tired of burning my lips off on a metal cup, or the taste of plastic that comes off a plastic one.
But knowing it wll crack on me like the others is holding me back.

But there must be something I am doing wrong? Please enlighten me! :confused2:

[Bernie]

Do you oil them regularly after washing them? Wood will only check or crack when the fibres dry unevenly, causing some to bind together more than others, and that's where the crack starts. If you can keep the wood from drying out too much, it should last. I've made two wooden cups on my lathe, but I can't say if they lasted because I gave them away.

So Ashley and Martin, do these still exist, and if so in what state? ;)

12207

EDIT: Made in Jan 2010, so they've more than likely made it to fireplaces by now. :)

[FishyFolk]

Never done anyting to them. But the cracks always came after using them with something hot,,i.e boiling hot water...they tended to stay in the bag all the time. Never took them out except to use them...

Okay, so what kind of oil?

[Ashley Cawley]

So Ashley and Martin, do these still exist, and if so in what state? ;)

http://www.naturalbushcraft.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=12207&stc=1

EDIT: Made in Jan 2010, so they've more than likely made it to fireplaces by now. :)
Cheeky blaggard! lol... as if I would burn such a gift, here it is on this very evening:
http://www.naturalbushcraft.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=12208&stc=1
And no cracks in sight!

[Ashley Cawley]

Now I'm certainly no wooden cup connoisseur lol but I have dealt with a few wooden objects drying out before and from my brief experience I would say it matters how fast it dries out and whether it dries out too quickly or un-evenly. If your making a cup or a bowl, don't leave it for any length of time with one side considerably thicker than the other as this will cause uneven strains on the wood as it dries and shrinks, wherever possible have it even as it is left to dry.

Don't try and force-dry it, don't leave it too near to your campfire or wood-burner. If you store or display it in a room where a wood-burner is used very frequently this can be extremely drying on wood and can cause it to shrink or even crack if the moisture content of the wood is reduced so much.

As mentioned oiling should protect the wood, personally I avoid oiling the inside of my wooden cups and let them simply obtain their own patina over time of tea, rum, port, whatever frequents my cup on those long campfire lit nights under the stars, my Kuksa is like a black hole. :) yet still has lovely burly grain on the outside.

Great little sub-topic by the way.

[Humakt]

As an aside, I would say that metal mugs aren't that bad.
Treat it as a thermometer. When two objects of different temperature (for example, the metal mug and the boiling hot water) come into contact, the hotter object radiates heat into the cooler object and stabilise at a mean temperature. Therefore, if the metal is too hot to put your lips on then the liquid inside will also be too hot to drink!

[FishyFolk]

As an aside, I would say that metal mugs aren't that bad.
Treat it as a thermometer. When two objects of different temperature (for example, the metal mug and the boiling hot water) come into contact, the hotter object radiates heat into the cooler object and stabilise at a mean temperature. Therefore, if the metal is too hot to put your lips on then the liquid inside will also be too hot to drink!

To late, this little baby is sitting next to me now :-)

http://www.skittfiske.no/Media/Cache/Images/5/7/WEB_Image%20Eagle%20Trekopp%20stor%20-%20%20go-koppen%20%20Eagle%20P717423763.Jpeg

The picture is not mine and the dude who built his fire directly on the rocks must be either ignorant, retarded or both...

But the gukse works :-)

[Valantine]

Oil oil oil but make sure its food safe
T^

[FishyFolk]

Oil oil oil but make sure its food safe
T^

Yes but what kind!

[Bernie]

Yes but what kind!

I've heard vegetable oil goes rancid and sticky. Nut and seed oils are great for wood and ought to be safe enough to consume ;). Sesame and Walnut are two I like.

[Humakt]

Wouldn't oils impart flavour though?

I would have thought regular use would keep the utensil 'moist'.

I like the whole kuksa look, but the damned things hold such a little amount. As a utensil for a good mug of hot brown I find them...well...pretty useless.

Look great though.

[FishyFolk]

You are right about the small ammount they hold. Specially the cheaper ones you can find here are bad. But this one from Eagle products in Norway is quite okayish. They say it holds 2dl. But then it just about runs over. So a little less. My wood cup (see picture) held 2 dl with ease. And my bowls was 3 dl and have dl markings in them, very handy when cooking.

Anyway this whole story took a new turn. When I bought the gukse the packacking said that Eagle Products have a "no cracks" guarantee for all their wood products. So I aksed them on Facebook if that would apply to my old bowl. And the answer was that it does, provided I send them a picture to show I did not stomp on them or deliberatly damage them. So I did, and just got an email copy of the customer relations person ordering their ware house to ship me 2 new bowls and a cup :-)

Here are the damaged ones, still use them for snacks in the house They just don't hold their soup or tea anymore.

Anyway, looks like Eagle Products knows the art of customer service. To bad they do not export...

12270

[midas]

n I thought I was the poor relation!when my girlfriend bought me a "KUPILKA" ie Its made of a Natural Fibre Composite n is dishwasher safe,holds a good sized cup full!n almost looks the part!!lol

[OakAshandThorn]

Good point, midas - I had completely forgotten about Kupilka...shame on me, I own one of their kuksas :p.
50% pine fibre and 50% plastic...a bit lighter than the wooden counterparts and just as robust.
http://kupilka.fi/

[bikebum1975]

Regarding what kind of oil I use mineral oil on my carvings. Spoons never had any issues and I've gone pretty thin. Number of people I've traded my stuff with no issues either. For hot liquids though as said don't go full on boil or if to hot for you to drink then yes can be to hot for your wood pieces. The ones you pictured almost look as if they are coated with polyurethane really shouldn't be an issue if they are coulda just been the wood itself

[DuxDawg]

http://www.creative-culinary.com/wood-butter-helps-renew-wood-utensils-and-bowls/

http://lifehacker.com/5911060/make-your-own-wood-butter-to-keep-your-wooden-utensils-and-furniture-looking-lovely

Mineral Oil is a great choice because it is food grade, safe for internal use and does not go rancid. Adding beeswax helps it last much longer than Mineral Oil by itself. Heating the wood slightly helps the wood butter to sink in. I heat it 2-3 times, applying more wood butter each time, when something is new. After that I just put it on cold whenever the wood starts to look too dry. Working well for me on kuksas, spatulas, spoons, chopsticks, etc.

[knutjob]

Yes but what kind!

Crisp n dry to use a product name. One reason is because it is fairly neutral in taste, thus not passing a taste onto whatever you drink from the cup.
I think as said before just on the outside so the propertys of the wood will do most of the work for you.
hope this helps.

[Nativewood]

Bit of a thread resurrection here but anyway here goes:

As Ashley has already said, I wouldn't bother oiling the inside of any wooden cup, kuksa, kåsa or noggin but I certainly would do the outside. Olive and vegetable cooking oils will go rancid over time so for an easy option, walnut oil is easily available from supermarkets at low cost and is a natural drying oil so will not turn hinky on you. Reapplying if and when necessary should help preserve the cup too. Other oils are pure, food-grade linseed oil (not the stuff you get from the DIY shop as they contain chemical drying agents) and tung oil. Tung oil dries much quicker than the linseed or walnut oils mentioned and is still food-safe. Liberon make an especially good one that I know the renowned carver, Jon Mac, uses. Tung oil is a natural product made from a Chinese nut. The pure linseed would be best for anyone concerned about nut allergies. You may still get some taint of flavour from the oil if the cup is treated right up to the lip but this should be minimal and for me at least, walnut tastes great!

Here's a couple I made a few years ago:

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5030/5615641119_a66569bb85_z.jpg
Coupe de Voyageur (canoe cup) in Cherry

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5110/5615656255_4d4a22d8b4_z.jpg
Kåsa in Norway Maple with belt/pack lanyard

These have a natural tooled finish i.e. no sandpaper was involved.

Hope the above helps.....:D

[midas]

n I thought I was the poor relation!when my girlfriend bought me a "KUPILKA" ie Its made of a Natural Fibre Composite n is dishwasher safe,holds a good sized cup full!n almost looks the part!!lol

Still in daily use...fits under espresso machine nozzle,n takes two "shots"....No problems,no oiling.no wear.......

[Magicdave]

I've heard vegetable oil goes rancid and sticky.

This is something I hadn't considered. I've been using olive oil, straight form the supermarket, is this a good choice?

[Magicdave]

Ok, I thought that last post on page 1 was the end of the thread when I posted. I just found my question had been answered on page 2.


Olive and vegetable cooking oils will go rancid over time

[FishyFolk]

Well, my Gugse has not cracked yet and the other wood bowls are also just fine. And since the gukse is doing the job, I do not use the others for hot liquid anymore, and they seem to handle
warm food well.

[Nativewood]

O' Dave of Magicness, you may find with regular use and washing of the piece it is ok but personally, I wouldn't use olive oil. If you, your family and anyone who may be using the treen you have made, has no sensitivity to nuts then I'd go with readily available walnut oil straight from the supermarket as this will dry before going rank. Tastes good in a salad too! If you fancy a go with pure linseed oil which shouldn't affect nut allergy sufferers then the stuff produced for horse feed is good as again, it will dry in time. See here: http://www.molevalleyfarmers.com/mvf/store/products/mvf-linseed-oil

[Magicdave]

O' Dave of Magicness I've been called a lot of things in my time, but that's a first. I was going to change to walnut oil, but now you've brought up another thing, I hadn't thought of allergies. Maybe linseed oil is the way to go, a bit of research is needed I think.

[Nativewood]

Well it's your username, ain't it? :p

Here's another very pure and rather pale linseed oil: https://www.dictum.com/de/oberflaechenbearbeitung/oberflaechenschutz-farben/oele/705275/linolja-oekologisches-schwedisches-leinoel-kalt-gebleicht-1-l

I've used stuff from High Barn Linseed and although it darkened or yellowed the wood, it was high quality stuff. Good enough to eat!

[Magicdave]

Well it's your username, ain't it?

For sure it is.

[David_JAFO]

hello,
Rune I've used wheat germ & sesame oil seems to do the trick. I agree with Ashley as well BTW & yes a Great little sub-topic by the way.
Regards
David
T^

[Magicdave]

Has anyone any thoughts on, or has tried, using a food safe pure mineral oil?

It might be useful to show the product I have in mind, http://brandonbespoke.co.uk they do 3 products a pure mineral oil, pure miner oil plus (extra durability) and a wax oil.

The thing that caught my eye, other than being advertised as food safe is one of their customers feedback.


Woods World Wide by Williams takes pride in producing high quality hand crafted wooden products for use in the catering industry. As such we want a high quality oil finish meeting all of the legislation set down by the Food Standards Agency. We have found Brandon Bespoke have listened to our requirements and they provide a first class service. We are proud to use their products.

I can't find much relating to what the legislation set down by the food standards agency is, but I found somewhere (wikipedia I think it was) that says mineral oils contain some e number chemical that isn't allowed as a food ingredient within the EU but for finishing chopping boards and wooden utensils it is fine. I'm kind of assuming (which can be a bad thing to do) that the standards would include something relating to alergies.

[Magicdave]

I got an email back from brandonbespoke. He says the pure mineral oil has no known allergy warnings, but the mineral oil plus and the wax may have traces of nuts.

[Magicdave]

Just a wee update, I've been using this, brandonbespoke pure mineral oil. It is beautiful, but something I never stumbled across on my research is that mineral oil is a surface finish, it does't penetrate the wood.

I'll keep using it. I've not tested this yet but I think it should work great. First finish with linseed oil, then follow with the pure mineral oil. That way it gets a great slow drying soak and is easier/quicker to maintain.

[Magicdave]

I just learned that heat treated walnut oil, and probably any heat treated nut oil, goes through what ever the heat treating process is and it removes any allergens from the oil. I can only find that this product: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bowl-Maker-Walnut-Oil-oz/dp/B001F7JUDK Mahoney's Walnut Oil is heat treated, but is unavailable at the link.

Does anyone know where it can be got here in the UK, or even better links to other manufactures to make for more options?