Pot with heat echangers

[rik_uk3]

There is talk of 'heat exchanger' pots here but for many members they (the pots) are an unknown.

Primus ETA pot, @3l with a Primus Omnifuel running on gas.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61rlrxcEX4M&feature=yo utu.be

Fantastic savings on your fuel and boil times, combine with 'haybox/cozy' cooking and its a win win all round.

[FishyFolk]

Avoid using these inside a tent. The Carbon monoxide levels uncrease to very dangerous levels. Here is the report from tests done by the Norwegian army:

Here is the summary of a report from the Norwegian Defence Research Establishment. This tests where done with a standard pot. Even then Carbon monoxide levels
uncreased to dangerous levels.

Small commercially available camping stoves of four different brands (Optimus, MSR, Coleman
and Sigg) were examined for carbon monoxide emission. Without a pot placed onto the stove the
carbon monoxide production is very small (below 5 ml per min) which hardly represent any
danger. The carbon monoxide production increased significantly for all the four brands (range
from 20 to 140 ml CO per min) when the stoves were used for cooking i.e. when a pot of water
was placed on the stove. This may represent a danger if the stoves are used within an enclosed
area without adequate ventilation (e.g. in a tent). Our measurements give reason to warn
especially against the brand Coleman.
http://www.ffi.no/no/Rapporter/10-01888.pdf

Here is the summary from a test done my the same people on the Primus ETA power heat exchanger pot:

Carbon monoxide production from the PRIMUS EtaPower
TM
Pot (1.7L) used on two different
small commercially available camping stoves brands was examined (Optimus and Coleman). This
pot was examined both at high and low power level. The carbon monoxide production from the
pot used on Optimus 111 at high power level was about 450 ml/min. The corresponding value for
Coleman Multifuel modell 550 was between 1300 and 2000 ml/min. This is 10 and 20 times
increase in production compared to using an ordinary flat-bottomed pot, for the Optimus and
Coleman respectively. Our measurements give reason for warning against the use of this pot
(Primus EtaPower
TM
) for cooking inside tents or within similar enclosed area. In particular it is
advised against cooking continuously over extended periods of time.

http://www.ffi.no/no/Rapporter/2012-00404.pdf

As you can see the carbon monoxide levels increase 10 to 20 times compared with the use of normal pots. And even a Normal pot will
bring you up to dangerous levels. Specially if you use it to melt snow for cooking or drinking water...

[rik_uk3]

So ventilate your tent.

[FishyFolk]

I would not dare to. Even experienced people like Vegard Ulvang, 3 times Olympic gold medalist in cross country skiing, scaled Mont Blanc, Mount Kinley, crossed Greenland on skis in 15 days, ekspeditions to remote areas in Mongolia, and Nepal, and finally his expedition to the south pole on skis , marking the 100 year anniversary of Roald Amundsens expedition. Thats where he almost expired from carbon monoxide poisoning due to cooking with a heat exchanger in the tent. The level of carbon monoxide is dramatically higher than when cooking with an ordinary pot. 10-20 times higher. And that's a lot.

[rik_uk3]

Extra ventilate the tent then for crying out loud. I've used it a lot in my 'parayurt. and eight man tipi, just ventilate as you should with any stove or lantern.

I'd have thought a man with your experience would take one of these on all your tent trips
http://www.amazon.co.uk/FiveSeasonStuff%C2%AE-Monoxide-Detection-Accidental-Poisoning/dp/B00N1U12NU/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1411996761&sr=8-2&keywords=camping+carbon+monoxide+alarm hung at face height of course.

[robmac]

The British Mountaineering Council quote the following when using this type of heat exchanger;

"If possible have a 'buddy' outside of the tent keeping an eye on you, ready to pull you out." which kind of defeats the object! But I believe that this problem is exacerbated by altitude?

Even so, 10 - 20 times the CO sounds a hell of a lot and I wouldn't risk it personally.

[FishyFolk]

Extra ventilate the tent then for crying out loud. I've used it a lot in my 'parayurt. and eight man tipi, just ventilate as you should with any stove or lantern.

I'd have thought a man with your experience would take one of these on all your tent trips
http://www.amazon.co.uk/FiveSeasonStuff%C2%AE-Monoxide-Detection-Accidental-Poisoning/dp/B00N1U12NU/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1411996761&sr=8-2&keywords=camping+carbon+monoxide+alarm hung at face height of course.

A stove or lantern gives off 5 ml per minute before you put the kettle on.

A heat exchange pot used with a Coleman 550 will increase that to 1300 and 2000 ml/min. I would not take the chance, or at least use a standard pot, which brings it down to the still dangerous level of 140ml per minute...

[FishyFolk]

The British Mountaineering Council quote the following when using this type of heat exchanger;

"If possible have a 'buddy' outside of the tent keeping an eye on you, ready to pull you out." which kind of defeats the object! But I believe that this problem is exacerbated by altitude?

Even so, 10 - 20 times the CO sounds a hell of a lot and I wouldn't risk it personally.

Yes it gets worse the higher you are. The reason for the increase in Carbon monoxide emissions is that the heat exchanger cools the flame way more than a standard pot does. A cooler flame produces more carbon monoxide. It will be even worse if you melt snow.

[robmac]

Yes it gets worse the higher you are. The reason for the increase in Carbon monoxide emissions is that the heat exchanger cools the flame way more than a standard pot does. A cooler flame produces more carbon monoxide. It will be even worse if you melt snow.

I like to cook under a tarp rather than in a tent, it's a much safer option all round. I may make a cuppa first thing from within the tent, but with the gas stove just outside, but I quite like cooking outside as long as I am sheltered from the rain/snow.

[jus_young]

Why the hell would you want to risk it? Cook outside and live to cook another day.

[Silverback]

CO bonds to haemoglobin 68 times better than O2 so even if O2 is present it will be readily replaced by CO.

CO is also slightly heavier than O2 so will sink below it....you'll be fine till you lay down to sleep...forever.

Not nice taking a corpse from a tent for the SAR services..... Just sayin

[shack]

Looks a great video and wow and impressive reduction in cooking time, I tend to cook outside or under a tarp so ventilation never an issue.