5 item survival

[ChrisCraft]

i wanted to get peoples opinions on items... specifically for long term survival. a year +

necessity, vs. luxury, what would you go for.

weight and size isnt a factor, but obviously you need to be able to carry all your equiptment in a regular 65-ish litre rucksack. so no gazebo's, or kitchen sinks, for example.

whatever clothing your wearing will not be counted as items. obviously not 15 layers and 4 hats, that'll be cheating, but whatevers normal for mildy chilly.

all items need to be separate, and cant be joined together and counted as 1 (a knife, with a sharpening stone attached, for example) :)

and bearing in mind this is long term survival, and you'll need to stay warm & dry, through all seasons, or you might get sick, and pop your clogs

i think my items would be :

1) hand axe

2) 3.5 litre billy can

3) 2 litre stainless steel bottle

4) winter-spec sleeping bag

5) a 20 litre keg of whisky (to keep me sane)

[ChrisCraft]

if i was a stronger man, i would probably swap the whisky for a massive canvass tarp, but im weak, so chose the drugs :D

[bopdude]

So no knife or fire making kit, interesting choices :)

What climate are we talking about, where in the world might this be ?

[ChrisCraft]

So no knife or fire making kit, interesting choices :)

... well ive gotta leave some space for whisky, so.... :)


What climate are we talking about, where in the world might this be ?

not arctic tundra, or scorching desert, but somewhere you think is challenging, thats survivable.

[shepherd]

id go with;

1, artic spec sleeping bag

2, a good thick full tang knife - like the pathfinder scout

3, my double bit axe - not too big but plenty big enough for felling small trees etc - ad luxury of a second edge for finer work

4, fire kit

5, lage stainless container - suitable for cooking but also able to carry and store water..

if i had a 6th id also take whiskey!! ha

[ChrisCraft]

not sure if ' fire kit ' is allowed, as its multiple items in one.

a fire steel would be ok tho.

what kind of container are you talking about, something wide, with a screwtop lid ? (not seen anything like that)

leave the knife, and take the whisky :)

[bopdude]

Fire steel, parang, arctic sleeping bag, 16cm zebra Billy pot. And the fifth would depend on where I was, either a tarp, catapult or fishing line

[Humakt]

1/ Machete
2/ Stainless pot of some sort
3/ Flint and steel (or is that two items? If two then I'll have a firesteel)
4/ Large sheet of polythene
5/ Haribo

[ChrisCraft]

thats a hardcore pack there humakt, you might freeze to death, but at least you wont go hungry :)

machete is a good bit of kit

[FishyFolk]

Cabin
Stove
Large pot
Fire steel
Hammock

:camping:

[ian c]

1, Sleeping bag
2, Parang
3, Zebra cooking pot
4, Flint
5, Large tarp
And hopefully I can use anything that I can find.

[ChrisCraft]

yeah deffo ian - survivals all about making use of whatever you can T^

hell, if i had nothing else, i would boil water in an old world war 2 artillery shell, if its all i could find

places with coastlines too, allsorts of stuff washes up !

[Ehecatl]

I'd take Ian, Mark and some bacon. I'd have a really good laugh and a cracking breakfast!

[shepherd]

not sure if ' fire kit ' is allowed, as its multiple items in one.

a fire steel would be ok tho.

what kind of container are you talking about, something wide, with a screwtop lid ? (not seen anything like that)

leave the knife, and take the whisky :)

Haha perhaps fire kit was bending the rules a bit. Ill go with fire steel then. And the container i had in mind was something like the bushpot by Dave Canterbury. Nice and big with a good lid. Great for cooking in and nice and big for water collection and storage also

[ChrisCraft]

13480

now that is a nice pot right there shepherd, this one yeah ?

not seen them before. way better than the zebra pots.

the flip-out handle, as well as a pouring spout, is what the zebra's are missing. superior design.

i might have to get one of those someday

[shepherd]

thats the one mate... dont have one myself YET but will be ordering one very soon... its the postage from the US thats been putting me off.. i agree though a far superior pot to the billy can

[Pootle]

Cabin
Stove
Large pot
Fire steel
Hammock

:camping:
Would hammock suspension count as an extra item though? If so Your in for a hard night, even if you are warm in your cabin.

[Pootle]

thats the one mate... dont have one myself YET but will be ordering one very soon... its the postage from the US thats been putting me off.. i agree though a far superior pot to the billy can
heinnie do them

http://www.heinnie.com/pathfinder-bush-pot-cooking-kit

[shepherd]

heinnie do them

http://www.heinnie.com/pathfinder-bush-pot-cooking-kit


thats awesome! had no idea they did them... thanks for the heads up pal shall be ordering in next couple of days! T^

[Pootle]

I'd never heard of them till reading this thread. looks a well thought out pot.

[shepherd]

some good reviews on youtube...

[bopdude]

And a bad one I've just watched, it looked like a good pot but I've been put off, not that I was going to need another ;)

[ChrisCraft]

thats the one mate... dont have one myself YET but will be ordering one very soon... its the postage from the US thats been putting me off.. i agree though a far superior pot to the billy can

regarding the zebra billy cans, and there flawed design, ive just found something on youtube, to counter-act the pouring issue. check it out the first 2 mins of vid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_j3yjk6EZc

thick gloves to hold the hot can, would work better, but i rarely take gloves with me, so thought this might interest some people who do the same

[FishyFolk]

regarding the zebra billy cans, and there flawed design, ive just found something on youtube, to counter-act the pouring issue. check it out the first 2 mins of vid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_j3yjk6EZc

thick gloves to hold the hot can, would work better, but i rarely take gloves with me, so thought this might interest some people who do the same

The flawed desig comes from the fact that the so called Zebra billy can is produced as a lunch box for Thais in Thailand.
My wife, who happened to be Thai went all "Farang ting tong ba ba boh boh mak mak" when I attempted to cook in mine, and hence
destroying the nice and shiny lunch box I had bought. She intended to pack my lunch in it...oh and "Farang ting tong ba ba boh boh mak mak" means something like:
"Foreigners are all crazy lunatics"

ANyway, I have long since discarded the whole idea of a billy can. They are just impractical. Get yourself a tea pot with a big lid, like the GSI stainleess steel teapot" The big lid makes it easy to clean, and you can cook anything in it. It has a pouring spout and a handle that does not get hot.

[ChrisCraft]

tea pots a nice idea, and will save alot of money going that way, for a starter kit. i spotted a 2 litre for £9 posted on ebay. no hanger on it tho, so will have to stick it directly into the fire.

for me personally, there too low capacity for my needs, and hard to find one with a handle on too, so it can be hung above a fire. all steel construction is needed too, any plastic will melt.

this is about as good as i could find. a 3 litre, almost all metal, the wooden lid knob may set on fire if the fire got a bit lairy, but unlikely.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3000ML-Outdoor-Camping-Strong-Stainless-Steel-Kettle-Tea-Kettle-Coffee-Pot-AY-/131567179434?hash=item1ea203d6aa:g:WfMAAOSwT6pVuXr k

that particular one works out £2 cheaper than the 3.5 litre zebra pot, a little less capacity.

id still go for the zebra tho myself, the kettle isnt really carry friendly with bits sticking out, and its not something you can leave out over night un-attended, you might get bugs, etc flying into / crawling into, the spout hole, if not plugged up with something.

i would rather take one of those pathfinder bush pots, over the zebra, but there twice the price, so in a world of compromise, i think there the best bang for buck version.

thats just my opinion tho, everyone uses different gear, and has different requirements. one mans rubbish, is another mans gold, as they say :)

[rik_uk3]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nesting-Billy-Can-6-Piece-Cooking-Set-Outdoor-Travel-Camping-Stove-Pots-Pans-/160289657997?hash=item255202148d:m:mok-FdKFD3ZSHOq_XdXZNPA

2, 4 , and 6 pint pots, aluminum, and work great, I've been using this type for the best part of fifty years. The first person to say there are health risks using aluminum is talking utter bullococks.

[ChrisCraft]

how do they hold up when stuck in the fire rik... dont they melt / warp ?

[rik_uk3]

Hold up no problem.

[ChrisCraft]

ive only used ali pans with stoves in the past.. never been brave enough to throw them in the furnace :)

ive thrown a few ali coke cans into the fire before, to see what would happen, and they vapourised within seconds. there only thin tho.

[nephilim]

My backpack (60L)
My goldenberg Axe (it's between a hatchet and small forest axe)
My knife
My fire steel
My hygiene kit - basically has toothbrush, pumice stone, nail file, floss, toothpaste, soon a pine tar soap and the tin that houses it all.

[ChrisCraft]

My backpack (60L)
My goldenberg Axe (it's between a hatchet and small forest axe)
My knife
My fire steel
My hygiene kit - basically has toothbrush, pumice stone, nail file, floss, toothpaste, soon a pine tar soap and the tin that houses it all.

backpacks not included in the 5 neph, freebie.

youll have to swap the kit for just 1 item, toothbrush ?

no blanket or sleeping bag, to keep you warm ?

[nephilim]

Ok...no bag...so that changes to a tarp then.

And cleaning kit...toothbrush definitely.

No warming product because fire can keep me warm, and if my shelter is built properly, it'll be windproof and rainproof.

If I can't make a fire, then there's a problem with my skillset

[ChrisCraft]

youll have to use ash for toothpaste, and nettle fibres for floss, lol :)

[nephilim]

I can live with that. I've done the charcoal toothpaste before when I forgot to pack my toothpaste, but the floss I'd probably skip unless I could get very thin fibres from the nettles. A by product would be a good nettle tea/soup

[shepherd]

i completely forgot about hygene items when i made my 5 choices lol... luckily now i know how to make toothpaste and floss.... thanks guys haha

[nephilim]

See the trouble is, many people forget hygiene products. I've been on weekend camp outs (Friday morning to Sunday night) where they've not bought toilet paper, a toothbrush, or even a change of clothes, never mind socks or underwear. Now bear in mind it was the middle of summer, sweating was not optional. I ended up giving half my toilet paper to this person and a spare pair of socks to him.

I vowed I wouldn't go on one again unless he bought a basic hygiene kit with him.

[bopdude]

Yeah but the topic of the thread is 5 survival items, not luxury, if it came to it you could wash your bits in just about anything once your water was boiled, in the tin you chose for survival, along with fire ;)

Just saying :)

[Ehecatl]

Yeah but the topic of the thread is 5 survival items, not luxury, if it came to it you could wash your bits in just about anything once your water was boiled, in the tin you chose for survival, along with fire ;)

Just saying :)

Yup. A wash down with baby wipes will suffice on a weekend, but I wouldn't select them as one of the five survival items. In any case, a barrel of brandy would be much more practical! :happy-clapping:

[ChrisCraft]

yeeeess, barrel of brandy :)

when it runs out, you can turn it into something too.

make a shower with it, or use it for floating lines out, for catching fish. imaginations the limit

[Ehecatl]

In fact, I was thinking of one of those large barrels. So one could chop it in half length ways and you'd have a bath tub! So no need for the baby wipes! Boom!

[ChrisCraft]

the big ones weigh 500 kilo's !!

you'd need to be schwarzenegger to carry that, plus your rucksack would need to be like the tardis on the inside :)

[Ehecatl]

Why would I want to carry it all at once? Sure, bit by bit - more than likely in my bladder. :ashamed:

[rik_uk3]

Tent
Sleeping bag
Billy Can
Bic lighter
and last of all one of these https://www.fortnumandmason.com/products/the-christmas-feast-hamper?taxon_id=755

[bopdude]

Lol at rik, do you don't want much then, that's not survival that's glamping lol

[ChrisCraft]

heheh christmas hamper :)

looks tasty.

good to see someone taking a lighter too. while everyone struggles, your deffo getting a fire going.

[ChrisCraft]

ive changed my 5 to 3 ... going hardcore.

1) hand axe

2) 3.5 litre billy can

3) winter-spec sleeping bag

[OakAshandThorn]

I originally refrained from responding to this thread because the idea of "surviving" in the bush with only 5 items sounds rather ridiculous. But, nevertheless, I shall out forward my thoughts on the matter.

First things first, the big two questions are:
What environment do you intend to carry out this experiment?
What are we defining as "the bush" or "wilderness", or "woods"?

I'll start with the first one. Most of us here live in a sub-temperate climate, and that is what we are likely most used to. Kit lists will vary greatly between different environments, and if we wanted to carry out such an experiment in a climate outside of our comfort range, or perhaps a different one than what we are used to, we would have to take this into consideration. That said, even a sub-temperate environment can have its extremes as far as weather and seasonal conditions.

As for the second question, our views on what constitutes a "wilderness" will be variable. For me, a wilderness is a remote place with an ecology appropriate for that environment, and being relatively untouched from the modern world, as in no developments/structures made by modern humans. Access to such a place requires extensive travelling by either plane, boat, or several weeks on foot. In the lower US, there are very few of these places left, and I cannot think of any in my environment. Alaska, however, is a different story, as are parts of the Boreal Forest and tundra in Canada that are still wild. As for the "woods" and "bush", these terms are also variable from individual to individual. Both can mean a city park, a backyard, public open space land, public land managed by the federal government (ie National Park Service, US Forest Service, Bureau of Wildlife Management, etc.), etc. Some people might even use the terms interchangeably with "wilderness". I define the bush as a place in a natural setting appropriate for that environment, being comfortably remote from the modern world (away from main roads, highways, and the general chaos of the modern world), that may or may not have been altered by humans within the last 100 years (ie ruined structures such as dilapidated farm houses, stone walls, abandoned cemeteries, abandoned towns, forest clearing for farming, new-growth forest, and so forth). A lot more places fit this description, such as the Catskill Mtn State Park, White Mtn National Forest, Green Mtn National Forest, Adirondack Mtn State Park, and numerous state forests and even some town-owned parks within my region of the northeastern US.

The legal probability, however, of being able to carry out a year long experiment in these places, is just about níl - not saying it cannot be done, but it would be quite a hassle to go through, and many places would likely turn you down. A month-long experiment would be more practical. In a wilderness such as the remote parts of Alaska and the Boreal Forest in Canada, a year-long experiment I think would be more practical in a legal and regulatory sense.

Lars Monsen completed a year-long trip across Canada. And if I'm not mistaken, he replenished his provisions by stopping in towns and receiving goods by plane. I believe he did supplement his provisions by hunting, but "living (solely) off the land" would have been folly. That would mean more legal knots to go through, plus for awhile he had sled dogs to feed.
Winter hiking in a cold environment that receives heavy snows during the season requires a lot of calories. In my Adirondack Mountain Club book, "winter Hiking and Camping", an estimated 3500-4000 calories per day is quote as being necessary if there is significant elevation gain (2000 ft/610 m +). Even if you weren't moving around a lot, your body would still need more calories to keep your body temperature stable in your shelter. If your shelter is heated with a wood-burning stove, you would need to go out and collect firewood everyday (or twice a day on the coldest days) to keep the shelter warm, all the while you are tramping around, cutting the wood, splitting it, and hauling it back to camp. Without snowshoes with a 50 cm/20 inch or more snow pack on the ground, you'd be using even more calories.
My point here is that if you do not have the calories to keep yourself replenished, you will starve. Christopher McCandless (Into the Wild) starved to death because he couldn't meet his daily caloric need from hunting and foraging. Check out Samuel Thayer's article on the topic: http://foragersharvest.com/into-the-wild-and-other-poisonous-plant-fables/ It is lengthy, but well-worth the read.

All this considered, I shall answer the original question from the OP, thinking critically and being brutally honest with my skill as an outdoorsman:

Let us say that I was granted the privilege of carrying out the year-long experiment in the bush of a place of my choosing in my region. I would pick Catskill Mtn State Park because - 1) It is the largest natural environment in the vicinity that shares a virtually identical forest ecology to what I am used to in my locality; and 2) The camping and hunting regulations are relatively relaxed.

As for the kit, I certainly would not limit myself to just 5 items, that would be folly. Lars Monsen had waaaaaay more than 5 items on his trip across Canada. Even the early explorers heading west and north to discover how far the land extended, a passageway across the Rockies, or a the famed Northwest Passage, didn't limit themselves to just 5 items. Doing so would have meant disaster and a desperate survival scenario, and they would likely perish under those circumstances. I think we have romanticised notions of the journeys made by early American/colonial and Canadian explorers. Hacking ones' way through the forest with axe and knife, and living off of venison, roots and berries is an idea more than a little out of touch with reality.

I shall instead address the question by using the 5 item perspective as a kit base, and not as the only things I would have with me.
That said, this would be my kit base:
1. 2 person tipi shelter
2. wood burning stove
3. Gränsfors Small Forest Axe
4. ferrocerium rod
5. Olicamp cookset

My chosen campsite would be near a lake, and as for food, I would arrange a week's worth of provisions to be dropped off every week by seaplane. I am not one for "living (solely) off the land" as already stated - I probably wouldn't last more than a month under those circumstances, especially with only 5 items. As for supplementing my provisions with hunting and gathering, most of the food collected would probably not include game other than fish (fly rod and fishing kit would be extra to the kit base), since I have not ever hunted for squirrel, deer, turkey etc. The foraging aspect of things, for the most part, I would limit to what I could collect and consume with little preparation. Preparation for things like acorns takes several days, but because of their caloric value, I would endeavour to process them. A lot of what I collect from hunting and gathering would be preserved for winter use and as emergency rations in case the sea plane crashes (several planes have crashed into the mountains in the Catskills).

Anyway, that is my perspective.

[ChrisCraft]

well.... that got outta hand pretty fast, lol.

your right, its practically impossible to find anywhere on earth to do this, that hasnt got some sort of human activity within a few miles distance.
which kind of makes the whole survival thing void, and not needed, but its a hobby for us and we get enjoyment from it. re-connecting with the earth, and testing our limits/knowledge.

i wouldnt worry too much about the law... when your lifes on line, youll do anything to survive.
ive heard stories of desperate people killing each other, over bottles of water.

i think i would still take my 3 items into most environments round the world. general good balance for my strengths/weakness's.
warmth & clean water is most important.

if you really knew what you were doing, you could manage with no items at all, how our ancestors have.
i think most of us would be suprised what were capable of, if put in a situation like that with nothing but the clothes on our back.

[Pootle]

I originally refrained from responding to this thread because the idea of "surviving" in the bush with only 5 items sounds rather ridiculous. But, nevertheless, I shall out forward my thoughts on the matter.

First things first, the big two questions are:
What environment do you intend to carry out this experiment?
What are we defining as "the bush" or "wilderness", or "woods"?

I'll start with the first one. Most of us here live in a sub-temperate climate, and that is what we are likely most used to. Kit lists will vary greatly between different environments, and if we wanted to carry out such an experiment in a climate outside of our comfort range, or perhaps a different one than what we are used to, we would have to take this into consideration. That said, even a sub-temperate environment can have its extremes as far as weather and seasonal conditions.

As for the second question, our views on what constitutes a "wilderness" will be variable. For me, a wilderness is a remote place with an ecology appropriate for that environment, and being relatively untouched from the modern world, as in no developments/structures made by modern humans. Access to such a place requires extensive travelling by either plane, boat, or several weeks on foot. In the lower US, there are very few of these places left, and I cannot think of any in my environment. Alaska, however, is a different story, as are parts of the Boreal Forest and tundra in Canada that are still wild. As for the "woods" and "bush", these terms are also variable from individual to individual. Both can mean a city park, a backyard, public open space land, public land managed by the federal government (ie National Park Service, US Forest Service, Bureau of Wildlife Management, etc.), etc. Some people might even use the terms interchangeably with "wilderness". I define the bush as a place in a natural setting appropriate for that environment, being comfortably remote from the modern world (away from main roads, highways, and the general chaos of the modern world), that may or may not have been altered by humans within the last 100 years (ie ruined structures such as dilapidated farm houses, stone walls, abandoned cemeteries, abandoned towns, forest clearing for farming, new-growth forest, and so forth). A lot more places fit this description, such as the Catskill Mtn State Park, White Mtn National Forest, Green Mtn National Forest, Adirondack Mtn State Park, and numerous state forests and even some town-owned parks within my region of the northeastern US.

The legal probability, however, of being able to carry out a year long experiment in these places, is just about níl - not saying it cannot be done, but it would be quite a hassle to go through, and many places would likely turn you down. A month-long experiment would be more practical. In a wilderness such as the remote parts of Alaska and the Boreal Forest in Canada, a year-long experiment I think would be more practical in a legal and regulatory sense.

Lars Monsen completed a year-long trip across Canada. And if I'm not mistaken, he replenished his provisions by stopping in towns and receiving goods by plane. I believe he did supplement his provisions by hunting, but "living (solely) off the land" would have been folly. That would mean more legal knots to go through, plus for awhile he had sled dogs to feed.
Winter hiking in a cold environment that receives heavy snows during the season requires a lot of calories. In my Adirondack Mountain Club book, "winter Hiking and Camping", an estimated 3500-4000 calories per day is quote as being necessary if there is significant elevation gain (2000 ft/610 m +). Even if you weren't moving around a lot, your body would still need more calories to keep your body temperature stable in your shelter. If your shelter is heated with a wood-burning stove, you would need to go out and collect firewood everyday (or twice a day on the coldest days) to keep the shelter warm, all the while you are tramping around, cutting the wood, splitting it, and hauling it back to camp. Without snowshoes with a 50 cm/20 inch or more snow pack on the ground, you'd be using even more calories.
My point here is that if you do not have the calories to keep yourself replenished, you will starve. Christopher McCandless (Into the Wild) starved to death because he couldn't meet his daily caloric need from hunting and foraging. Check out Samuel Thayer's article on the topic: http://foragersharvest.com/into-the-wild-and-other-poisonous-plant-fables/ It is lengthy, but well-worth the read.

All this considered, I shall answer the original question from the OP, thinking critically and being brutally honest with my skill as an outdoorsman:

Let us say that I was granted the privilege of carrying out the year-long experiment in the bush of a place of my choosing in my region. I would pick Catskill Mtn State Park because - 1) It is the largest natural environment in the vicinity that shares a virtually identical forest ecology to what I am used to in my locality; and 2) The camping and hunting regulations are relatively relaxed.

As for the kit, I certainly would not limit myself to just 5 items, that would be folly. Lars Monsen had waaaaaay more than 5 items on his trip across Canada. Even the early explorers heading west and north to discover how far the land extended, a passageway across the Rockies, or a the famed Northwest Passage, didn't limit themselves to just 5 items. Doing so would have meant disaster and a desperate survival scenario, and they would likely perish under those circumstances. I think we have romanticised notions of the journeys made by early American/colonial and Canadian explorers. Hacking ones' way through the forest with axe and knife, and living off of venison, roots and berries is an idea more than a little out of touch with reality.

I shall instead address the question by using the 5 item perspective as a kit base, and not as the only things I would have with me.
That said, this would be my kit base:
1. 2 person tipi shelter
2. wood burning stove
3. Gränsfors Small Forest Axe
4. ferrocerium rod
5. Olicamp cookset

My chosen campsite would be near a lake, and as for food, I would arrange a week's worth of provisions to be dropped off every week by seaplane. I am not one for "living (solely) off the land" as already stated - I probably wouldn't last more than a month under those circumstances, especially with only 5 items. As for supplementing my provisions with hunting and gathering, most of the food collected would probably not include game other than fish (fly rod and fishing kit would be extra to the kit base), since I have not ever hunted for squirrel, deer, turkey etc. The foraging aspect of things, for the most part, I would limit to what I could collect and consume with little preparation. Preparation for things like acorns takes several days, but because of their caloric value, I would endeavour to process them. A lot of what I collect from hunting and gathering would be preserved for winter use and as emergency rations in case the sea plane crashes (several planes have crashed into the mountains in the Catskills).

Anyway, that is my perspective.
humbug. 😜

[OakAshandThorn]

well.... that got outta hand pretty fast, lol.

your right, its practically impossible to find anywhere on earth to do this, that hasnt got some sort of human activity within a few miles distance.
which kind of makes the whole survival thing void, and not needed, but its a hobby for us and we get enjoyment from it. re-connecting with the earth, and testing our limits/knowledge.

i wouldnt worry too much about the law... when your lifes on line, youll do anything to survive.
ive heard stories of desperate people killing each other, over bottles of water.

i think i would still take my 3 items into most environments round the world. general good balance for my strengths/weakness's.
warmth & clean water is most important.

if you really knew what you were doing, you could manage with no items at all, how our ancestors have.
i think most of us would be suprised what were capable of, if put in a situation like that with nothing but the clothes on our back.
Oh, survival? I thought we were talking about long-term living. Survival is a whole different matter altogether, with a host of variables to take into account. If I was paddling down a river, went through rapids, and lost everything but 5 items when my canoe or kayak overturned, I'd be one heck of a fortunate soul. Even if everything is tied down, all you need is the force of the current combined with a rough-surfaced or sharp rock, and things can disappear. Or, you could be separated from the canoe entirely and only have what is on your person (assuming it wasn't carried off by the water). That said, unless such an incident occurred in a wilderness, I'm pretty sure someone would find your whereabouts in a matter of days, maybe a month at most (if you didn't die already....in the example situation I created above, if the temperature was cold enough, I could very well die from hypothermia, assuming I could wade out of the river in the first place since I cannot swim). Surely a search party would be organised, and SAR teams would comb the place until they found you....and if it was me, I would do everything to be found. Looking at what I usually have on my person, I would probably be left with only one or two knives in such a scenario. It would be tough, but if I managed not to drown and die from hypothermia, I think I would have the mental will remain alive. I say "think" because, thanks the Stars, I've never been in a life-or-death scenario that depended on my skills and willpower to keep myself alive. Very few people would be able to survive a full year with only 5 items, I highly doubt I would make it beyond a month or two.

Our ancestors made the tools they needed and took them wherever they moved. Leaving them behind would have been foolhardy. When the Plains Tribal Nations moved to follow the herds of Buffalo, they took everything they could with them - Buffalo hides or clothing and shelter, stone and eventually steel tools for processing the meat and hides, spears/javelins, bows and arrows. Starting over from nothing, even in their tribal communities, would have doomed the group. even Ötzi the Iceman travelled with a longbow, several arrows (some unfinished), a copper axe, a flint knife and woven nettle fibre sheath, a retoucheur (billet) for flint knapping and making more stone tools, a pack-basket, a snare made from woven tree inner barks, and birch bark containers. He even had a small first-aid kit, two pieces of Birch Polyore fungus threaded on leather thongs.

[OakAshandThorn]

Dear me, I seem to have de-railed the thread....oh no! :P :Sorry:
I'll get me coat...

[ChrisCraft]

no worries mate. its just opinions isnt it... were all different, its all good.

forget about it, and celebrate the new year with a quadrouple whisky :)

[OakAshandThorn]

Is maith liom usige beatha :).
I'll drink to that! :D

[True Survivor]

Excuse the minor thread resurrection. I'm new to the forum and enjoyed reading this thread :)
Whilst totally hypothetical, I think there's a lot of value in considering kit vs skills like this, and the vagueness of the environment and the 4 season element adds to this. (It's made me decide I need to really work on my natural cord making skills, and learn how to make a sharpening stone in the wild...)
Anyway, I think I'd take
1. Big knife like an ESEE Junglas or a thick parang.
2. Firesteel.
3. Steel water bottle, probably around 2 litres capacity.
4. Shotgun if I can carry lots of ammo. 22 rifle if I'm limited by weight/size.
5. ?
I can't decide between a knife sharpening stone, an arctic sleeping bag, a load of paracord, a poncho, or a Jerry can full of Drambuie...

[ChrisCraft]

glad you liked it, not everyone does :)

you can sharpen most knives with almost any rock, with time, patience, and practice.
i find convex edge blades being the best to work with, when using just straight up stones / rocks / boulders / a cliff edge, whatever you can find :)

natural cord can be as simple as just pulling up thin tree roots, to use to tie things together, or you can take it much further and learn how to braid / plait fibres, to create string, and even rope, but theres alot of work involved in that, preparing the fibers, and repetition, lots of patience. i dont want to put you off tho, give it a try sometime, if you feel compelled to learn.

all handy skills to know tho, even if theyll never be used in a life or death situation. it gives a backpacker / bushcrafter, more confidence and self worth :)

[cabot]

i wanted to get peoples opinions on items... specifically for long term survival. a year +

necessity, vs. luxury, what would you go for.

weight and size isnt a factor, but obviously you need to be able to carry all your equiptment in a regular 65-ish litre rucksack. so no gazebo's, or kitchen sinks, for example.

whatever clothing your wearing will not be counted as items. obviously not 15 layers and 4 hats, that'll be cheating, but whatevers normal for mildy chilly.

all items need to be separate, and cant be joined together and counted as 1 (a knife, with a sharpening stone attached, for example) :)

and bearing in mind this is long term survival, and you'll need to stay warm & dry, through all seasons, or you might get sick, and pop your clogs

i think my items would be :

1) hand axe

2) 3.5 litre billy can

3) 2 litre stainless steel bottle

4) winter-spec sleeping bag

5) a 20 litre keg of whisky (to keep me sane)

I agree with 4 of the 5 not so sure about the whiskey as could do with out it, think I would be kinda lonely so would like a woman as number 5 or maybe put the whisky into her so would have a drunk woman or would that be considered a luxury ( or is that totally insane ) lol

[Midge_Fodder]

Pretty simple really

1, Knife
2, Axe
3, billy can
4, fire kit
5, Czech army bed roll

[TinkyPete]

i wanted to get peoples opinions on items... specifically for long term survival. a year +

necessity, vs. luxury, what would you go for.

weight and size isnt a factor, but obviously you need to be able to carry all your equiptment in a regular 65-ish litre rucksack. so no gazebo's, or kitchen sinks, for example.

whatever clothing your wearing will not be counted as items. obviously not 15 layers and 4 hats, that'll be cheating, but whatevers normal for mildy chilly.

all items need to be separate, and cant be joined together and counted as 1 (a knife, with a sharpening stone attached, for example) :)

and bearing in mind this is long term survival, and you'll need to stay warm & dry, through all seasons, or you might get sick, and pop your clogs

i think my items would be :

1) hand axe

2) 3.5 litre billy can

3) 2 litre stainless steel bottle

4) winter-spec sleeping bag

5) a 20 litre keg of whisky (to keep me sane)

with looking at your list i have a couple of major questions.

How good is your mental well being and how are you going to keep going? what is your goal?
Where abouts are you thinking of being?
How good is you clothing for normal? mild chilly weather and what about heavy rain/sleet/snow conditions?
How good is your fire skills especially with no fire making kit in wet windy conditions?
How is good is your knowledge on wild medicals and plants?
How good is your hunting/trapping skills?
How good is your water sources is it free of pesticides and chemicals?
Do you have access to a large area of private land with full permission to hunt/gather on with good forested and oipen areas and good water sources?

There is an awful lot to think about and make sure you are very confident at doing before even thinking of trying anything like this....just look at such things as Alone on discovery people did not make it very far, let alone a year. Or some of the stuff survivorman tries. There is reasons why people put limits on it. If you want to do the live a long term survival/bushcraft way I bet you would need a heck of a lot more than 5 items look at THIS (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0437806/) parts of it can been seen on you tube he did a lot of prep and lived quite well, but he had a lot more than 5 or even ten items.