Early planning stage, Arctic winter camp.

[bopdude]

Hi all.

Well as per title on another forum a few of us are in the planning stages for an Arctic adventure, not confirmed yet but it's looking like Northern Sweden in January or maybe February of 2017. This will be my first time in such an environment, I first wanted to go on a trip like this a couple of years ago but 'life' got in the way, I've been dreaming of it since then. So, crazy or not, the kit is getting bought bit by bit when funds allow, I'll be hot tenting in a Helsport Varanger 4-6 which I have bought off the bay in excellent condition, I've sourced a Ti woodburner, the next is a toboggan and then clothing etc............. anyway, just thought I would open a thread as it was mentioned recently.

Any comments and thoughts welcome :)

[FishyFolk]

Yeah, will you be alone in that tent, or do you plan to share it with the rest of the group?

Hot tenting is more of a group thing as you would have to fill that oven quite often to keep that tent comfortably warm at night. It is doable for an overnigheter or two but over any
length of time it gets to you. So the best way is simply to have one man/lady awake who both keep the fire going, and act as a fire guard.

Else excellent choice of tent, so you are off to a good start there.
At last...if I where you I would do this in February. Still deep winter, and cold , but the sun will be back, so you will have longer hours, but still have the dark nights for Aurora watching. Also the weather tend to be more stable then. January can be quite wet, even up in the hills, even if there will be a lot of snow. And you will hardly have any daylight...just a couple of hours each side of noon depending on how far north you go.

I am in Northern Norway, as far north as Kirruna in Sweden. Also be aware that the supermarket in Abisko is due to close for good in September. So if going there is the plan, the nearest supermarket is either on the border with Norway 40 km from Abisko, or 90km away in Kirruna....

[bopdude]

Thanks for the input.

Still early planning but there will be at least 2 of us with hot tents, I have no problem sharing firewatch if one of the others wants to bunk down, one of the other points you make about daylight has be mentioned and that is why it could now be a February camp, makes sense ? We are planning on Northern Sweden, possibly flying into Lulea and then meeting with a couple of local guys at some point, as I say, still early days in the planning but I've got the butterflies doing gymnastics in my gut lol.

Thanks for the input :)

[FishyFolk]

If only 2 -4 person go, I would strongly recomend sharing one tent. If you want more privacy, just bring a tarp to sleep under for a night or two (highly recomended).
Personally I would not even bother with tents. I would rent a cabin up there as a base and drying kit place, and just go sleep outside with a tarp. That way I have a backup if the weather turns serious, and up in those hills it can change from still, weather with blue skies, to a hurricane force blizzard within minutes.

Actually make sure that each of you have a light shovel with a metal blade with you. Up there it is not a knife or an axe that will save you, it's a shovel and a candle (bring that too) . And the spades are excellent for sorting out the camp, and you need to dig that tent down and build a wind break. If there is one pice of kit I can guarantee that you will use a lot, it is that shovel.

Btw how do you plan to transport you kit out in the snow?

[bopdude]

Thanks for all the tips, I don't think renting a cabin would be on the agenda as good as it sounds, I'll be taking a tattoo and hammock hear as I fancy that as well. A snow shovel is on all our lists as are candle lanterns, we'll be using toboggans as transport once we're done by road. One of the local guys it's bringing his sled and dogs as far as I know.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

[rik_uk3]

I can understand the desire to haul a load of kit on a Pulk but as its your first experience 'up there' I'd go the cabin route with one or two nights in tent/tarp not far from the safety of a cabin.

I've never been to the Arctic but have done a lot of UK winter camping; 'hot tenting' I've done but as Fishy said keeping a stove 'in' all night can be a pain in the ass. Concentrate on buying the very best sleeping bag you afford which will keep you warm all night after the stove has gone out...an undisturbed nights sleep charges your batteries and don't forget to fill a thermos before sleep time...that warm sweet drink first thing in the morning from the comfort of your sleeping bag is wonderful :)

[bopdude]

I can understand the desire to haul a load of kit on a Pulk but as its your first experience 'up there' I'd go the cabin route with one or two nights in tent/tarp not far from the safety of a cabin.

I've never been to the Arctic but have done a lot of UK winter camping; 'hot tenting' I've done but as Fishy said keeping a stove 'in' all night can be a pain in the ass. Concentrate on buying the very best sleeping bag you afford which will keep you warm all night after the stove has gone out...an undisturbed nights sleep charges your batteries and don't forget to fill a thermos before sleep time...that warm sweet drink first thing in the morning from the comfort of your sleeping bag is wonderful :)

As much as I understand the cabin aspect it won't be happening, the lad that is 'chief organiser' has done a few arctic trips so have faith in his judgment, not to say that I don't hold anything your saying here with respect, I do. As for sleeping system, I'll probably be using a Canadian forces arctic set up which is meant to be good down to below -50 ?

Thanks for the input so far :)

[FishyFolk]

Okay, now that we are done trying to talk sense into you we can concentrate on giving you the small tricks that will make life better in the situation you will actually be in.

Now, if you end up around Abisko, or the hills up towards the Norwegian border, on the Swedish side there will be litterally hundreds of locals driving snow scooters, most of them with sleds attached.
You can probably ask them nicely, and they will haul your heavy kit for you. Offer them a shot of whiskey and they will marry you :-)


Before you go to bed, fill a nalgene bottle with boiling water and stick it inside the wool socks you were wearing during the day, and throw it into your sleeping bag (just make sure the ther is no leaks).
This will:

A.) Heat up your sleeping before before you go to bed.
B.) Keep you warm trough the night. If you start to be cold, just put it between your thighs, to heat up your femoral
artery a little. You will be toast all night.
C.) In the morning your woold socks will be dry as as sand in the sahara, and nice and warm to put on your feet.
D.) The water in the bottle will still be luke warm, perfect for your morning face and hand cleaning.

ANother trick...your boots. Get a couple of zippo type hand warmers. They are nice to have anyway, but genious for sticking into the toe of your boots.
They burn all night and in the morning you have nice, warm and perhaps dry boots to put your feet in, instead of a couple of blocks of sollid ice....

Get yourself a shoe brush. STick it in the cargo pocket of your smock/ anorak. Use it to brush the snow off you before you eneter the hot tent. The snow will melt and make you wet, and freeze when you go outside.

[bopdude]

As said, early days still but the rough plan is fly into Lulea or Kiruna and make our way by road to the Porjus area, from there walk up the lake to make camp, a bit of that could all change but that is the rough plan. The hot water bottle is a deffo as are the hand warmers, thanks again :)

[FishyFolk]

That sounds very doable. If there is a lot of snow on the ice, there is probably plenty of snowscooter tracks to use. And from the village of Porjus you can go straight onto the ice, and be on the flat all the time, which is nice if you are draging tobogans or pulks.

I am not familliar with the area itself in winter, only been there in summer a few times as a young lad, but like on lake Torneträsk, Store Lule lake should be crawling with people ice fishing if the weather is nice, and unlike Norway, that means snowscooters. Which will be a safety asset for you.
(but may be irritating if it is the great quiet of the northern wilderness you are after).

https://www.google.no/maps/@66.9593447,19.8185278,3a,75y,291.96h,75.2t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sPG6MdIS6bItea_4h_WrGRg!2e0!7i1 3312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

[bopdude]

That's the plan, head up the lake until we find a quiet spot, if we can, if not, it's going to be make the most of it.

[bopdude]

OK, long overdue update, 6 Brits confirmed as going now, another 1 or 2 in the wings, a Swedish guy is planning on a couple of days with us to. So, flying into Kiruna and staying in a hostel overnight, this will give us the evening to buy supplies and sort kit etc after the flights. Train from Kiruna to Gallivare early next morning where will be jumping on a minibus to take us up to our desired camping location, or there abouts, Suorva is the chosen area. We will then spend 9 nights camping before being picked up on the morning of the 2nd of Feb, we'll be dropped off in Porjus where we will be getting a coach to Jokkmokk and camp on the campsite there for 4 nights, while there we will be taking in the Saami winter market which we are looking forward to.


Not definitive but this is the list, roughly, there may be bits missing, bits I'll swap etc

KIT LIST

Sleeping

Helsport Varanger 4-6 person tipi
British army bivi bag
Canadian forces cold weather sleep system good to -50
Exped Synmat 9
Therm-a-Rest Ridge Rest SOLite
Reflective ground sheet

Cooking

Zebra 14cm Billy,
Frying pan, grips,
KFS, Large folding Swedish cup, plate, bowl set, biodegradable soap, can be used on food stuffs as well, kitchen sink, microfibre drying towel. pan scrubs.
Ti-Goat Large woodburning stove.
Pocket woodburning stove.
British Army machette
Laplander folding saw
2 or 3 knives to go into various packs / carry options
Compass
Head torch
Pack torch

Food stuffs
TBC

Wash Kit in pouch.
Flannel, toothbrush and toothpaste, soap, moisturising hand cream, hand sanitizer, handy wipes pack, talcum powder, microfibre towel, lip balm

First aid kit, being put together

Bag 1, German army deployment bag 900x50x50
Bag 2, British Army deploment bag 120l
Bag 3 (possibly)
Hand luggage, Highlander 44l

Toboggan, roll up version
Cheap tarp to act as a cover for toboggan bags

Clothing,

2 sets Merino wool 200 weight tops and bottoms
1 set Aldi Merino wool top and bottoms base
1 Aldi Merino wool mid top
1 Swedish Army wool cardigan
Softie top and trousers
5 pairs British army Arctic wool socks. 2 pairs merino wool socks.
M39 woolen trousers with braces.
US air force N1B canvas mukluks, with 3 wool felt soles, felt liners,
Baffin Impact Boots / Selkirk Extreme Cold Weather
Overboots, waterproof to fit over mukluks if needed
British army Gortex lined mittens with inners, Welding gauntlets, Swedish army leather mittens with British army wool inners x 2 pairs, wool wristties
Leather work gloves ?
Contact gloves
1 pair Skytec Argon
Tent boots,
British army balaclava
Ray Mears possum beanie
Fur trapper hat with face mask
Wool head over
Possum scarf
Wool duffle coat
Windproof smock
British Army whites
Mothership coat
Tent boots

Electronics
Camera.
Batteries.
Samsung Note 4
Charger for camera and phone.
Spare SD cards

2 Insulated flasks
Sewing kit
Firesteels
Lighters ( bought out there )

[Woody]

Hey bopdude, it's looking surprisingly trim compared to the other lad (Lanny?) , Good job.
I'd leave the kitchen sink though 😁

I noticed you mention batteries, I just bought a nice bit of kit over on evilbay , for a reasonable price for what it does.
It started the van twice already in the cold weather and it's got USB socket to charge your electronics.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/302065343258

Not sure if it would perform OK in the minus temperatures, but I thought I'd share anyways...

No affiliation etc.

ATB
👍

[Ehecatl]

Alan! You forgot salt! :shocked: Take a large bag to sprinkle in case it's a bit slippy!

[bopdude]

Yeah he has a lot of kit, I'm looking at one of these chragers http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/122229337488?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
The kitchen sink is a must :D

M@ I don't think they do bags big enough lol

[Woody]

They look good, but won't start a 5ltr engine... 😀
Upside is you can keep it in your pocket to keep it warm.
It's all about what you need out of it.
From what Wayland was saying in a different thread , it seems most batteries will not work very well at those temperatures, unless you keep them close to your body...
Hope you manage to take some good pics bud, so we can voyage vicariously through you...😁

[bopdude]

They look good, but won't start a 5ltr engine... ��
Upside is you can keep it in your pocket to keep it warm.
It's all about what you need out of it.
From what Wayland was saying in a different thread , it seems most batteries will not work very well at those temperatures, unless you keep them close to your body...
Hope you manage to take some good pics bud, so we can voyage vicariously through you...��

Yeah cold weather will drain a battery hence the need to recharge things, I was looking at the powerpot
(https://www.amazon.com/Power-Pot-Portable-Electric-Generator/dp/B00KR14508) but a bit pricy but also found the MiniO (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MiniO-Thermo-Electric-Portable-USB-Power-Generator-with-USB-Light-/252347512476?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368&clk_rvr_id=1135892210411&rmvSB=true) at a third of the price but it's not a pot ????? So with that and spare batteries power shouldn't be a problem ? Wayland is a top bloke at photography, knows his way around the cold white stuff so I read all his gear repeatedly, going to be meeting him and his family at Jokkmokk campsite.

[FishyFolk]

Good list iuf a bit heavy but you have toboigans so you're good.. but ditch the folding saw, it will be near useless. You will neeed nothing short of a full sized bow saw and and axe to process enough wood if you are going to do anything beyond heating a brew. Also where is your skis or snow shoes?

Coop Forum is the huge supermarket in Kirruna, and you should be able to find a cheap axe and bow saw either there, or in other nearby outlets. Coop is open from 7am to 10pm

[bopdude]

Good list iuf a bit heavy but you have toboigans so you're good.. but ditch the folding saw, it will be near useless. You will neeed nothing short of a full sized bow saw and and axe to process enough wood if you are going to do anything beyond heating a brew. Also where is your skis or snow shoes?

Coop Forum is the huge supermarket in Kirruna, and you should be able to find a cheap axe and bow saw either there, or in other nearby outlets. Coop is open from 7am to 10pm

Ah yes, sorry, snow shoes will be British Army bear paws, thanks for the info about the Coop forum, I'll have a look see, could be a life saver :)

[FishyFolk]

The bear paws should serve you well if you do not plan any long distance hiking in deep, fresh snow. SHould also be good for getting around camp until you have made hardened tracks by walking around :-)
In N orway we call models like that "cabin snow shoes" i.e the ones you keep around the cabin the wear when you need to go to the shed for more fire wood.

[bopdude]

The bear paws should serve you well if you do not plan any long distance hiking in deep, fresh snow. SHould also be good for getting around camp until you have made hardened tracks by walking around :-)
In N orway we call models like that "cabin snow shoes" i.e the ones you keep around the cabin the wear when you need to go to the shed for more fire wood.
The chosen route in is across a lake, around 1Km a few hundred meters from the drop off point, then depending on what we find maybe the same off the lake the other side, asides from that I don't think I'll be travelling that far from camp ( hopefully ) I know there are a few different Coop Forums but struggling to find one that sell hardware, could just be the language barrier, even though I'm using Google to translate the page, I'll keep looking.

Thanks.

[FishyFolk]

The chosen route in is across a lake, around 1Km a few hundred meters from the drop off point, then depending on what we find maybe the same off the lake the other side, asides from that I don't think I'll be travelling that far from camp ( hopefully ) I know there are a few different Coop Forums but struggling to find one that sell hardware, could just be the language barrier, even though I'm using Google to translate the page, I'll keep looking.

Thanks.

These stores seldom have anything about what they sell on the home page, appart from whatever is on sale that week.
But I have been there several times, as we go twice a year to stock up on meat, as that uis 1/3 of the price in Norway.

However I must have missed the fact that the harware department is it's own entity,
but in the same building :-)
That is called Coop Bygg. And "Bygg" = Build in both Norwegian and Swedish. Basicly they sell building supplies and tools.
The Swedish version does not have a an online store, but on the Norwegian Coop Bygg, they sell a Bacho bow saw for 11£.
Prices on hardware are approximataly the same in Norway and Sweden.

Sadly they only appear to stock brand name axes...i.e Hultafors and Fiskars, and they start at 35£.
So you may be better off looking somewhere else. But in these small towns up here north of the arctic, choice is not always offered....

Anyway, here it is:
https://www.google.no/maps/place/Kiruna+kommune,+Sverige/@67.8450052,20.2571899,3a,39.7y,247.34h,90.72t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sx17i3s3slRUPm6B6r3WUHw!2e0!6s% 2F%2Fgeo2.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3Dx17i3s3slRUPm 6B6r3WUHw%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_ sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26y aw%3D292.2821%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312 !8i6656!4m5!3m4!1s0x45d08e2ae4257c2b:0x4034506de8c 8660!8m2!3d67.8557995!4d20.2252821

[bopdude]

However I must have missed the fact that the harware department is it's own entity,
but in the same building :-)
That is called Coop Bygg. And "Bygg" = Build in both Norwegian and Swedish. Basicly they sell building supplies and tools.
The Swedish version does not have a an online store
https://www.google.no/maps/place/Kiruna+kommune,+Sverige/@67.8450052,20.2571899,3a,39.7y,247.34h,90.72t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sx17i3s3slRUPm6B6r3WUHw!2e0!6s% 2F%2Fgeo2.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3Dx17i3s3slRUPm 6B6r3WUHw%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_ sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26y aw%3D292.2821%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312 !8i6656!4m5!3m4!1s0x45d08e2ae4257c2b:0x4034506de8c 8660!8m2!3d67.8557995!4d20.2252821


That will be why I can't find hardware :) Thanks for the Google Earth map, that will help a lot :)

[FishyFolk]

Looked around as the area has several supermarkets and found a Clas Ohlosn just a few hundred meters down the street from COOP Forum/Bygg.
It is located here:
https://www.google.no/maps/@67.8466888,20.2554782,3a,77.6y,325.84h,97.99t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sh5gpf1pPv1DNYrPfwNoMIg!2e0!7i1 3312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

And here is the website: http://www.clasohlson.com/uk/

The hardware prices are more or less identical in the UK and in scandinavia. The webiste has link to the swedish and Norwegian website as well, so that you can compare.
Their cheap bow saw looks okayish, as it is Swedish made. But the cheap axe is probably chinese, and as sharp as a tub of lard. I can have a look when we go x-mas shopping in the weekend as our local mall has a Clas Ohslon in it.

But Clas Ohslon is well worth a look see if you need a Mora Knife, as they have a very good sellection :-)

Ica Kvantum, next to Clas Ohlson is a grocery supermarket.

[Woody]

Brilliant help there Rune! Top man.👍

Bopdude, it'd be quite funny to wind up the lads, as you now know where to go shopping , even though you've never been there before... ;)
Satnav and all that.
They'l think you're paranormal...
😁

[bopdude]

Thanks for the links and advise, if you don't mind having a look if you're there abouts that would be great, thanks.

Woody, they already know, lol

[FishyFolk]

I do not like to cross over the mountain pass to Sweden in winter. If there is a storm they close to road on you, and you could sit there for days waiting for it to open. But Kirruna is just 3-4 hours drive from me.

[bopdude]

I do not like to cross over the mountain pass to Sweden in winter. If there is a storm they close to road on you, and you could sit there for days waiting for it to open. But Kirruna is just 3-4 hours drive from me.

Norway was an option in both the early stages and towards the end, when we found out that the buses and trains stopped running to our preferred spot, a lot of phone calls to and with one of our Swedish guys managed to sort us out.

[FishyFolk]

The only train up here runs from Narvik to Kirruna. Else yes public transportation up here is a joke.
The weather will by a lot drier in Sweden, as most of artctic Norway has a coastal climate, we tend to get very snowy, but wet winters.
And you do not want to be in wet snow unless you are very experienced. Everything it touches gets soaked, and it's very hard to stay dry.
When it is very cold you do not have that problem, and most of the time you only get that dry cold in the interrior. And up here that mostly means Sweden, unless you go furteher north to Finnmark.
The interrior of Troms is also a good bet, but again, there is only a bus a couple of times a day.

[bopdude]

The weather will by a lot drier in Sweden, as most of artctic Norway has a coastal climate, we tend to get very snowy, but wet winters.
And you do not want to be in wet snow unless you are very experienced. Everything it touches gets soaked, and it's very hard to stay dry.


Now that comes as a surprise, I can understand the logic but in your many video's ( which I watch often ) it doesn't come across as wet snow, I'll have to watch some again, good excuse lol

[FishyFolk]

-I have the luxury of living here, and can choose to go out only when conditions are relatively good. You will be at the mercy of whatever weather is prevailing at the time you booked your trip. Anyway whenver then temps go above 0*C the snow gets wet.